#121 Chris Camozzi - BKFC CRUISERWEIGHT
Chris Camozzi - Bare Knuckle FC Cruiserweight Fighter, Professional MMA Fighter, BJJ Blackbelt, UFC Middleweight Vet, MMA Coach, TUF Contestant, and Podcast Host. Chris Camozzi is a globally recognized fighter who competes in the Light heavyweight division and has spent the last 16 years competing in mixed martial arts and kickboxing. Camozzi is a TUF 11 alumni and former UFC fighter. He most recently competed in the Professional Fighters League. Camozzi also Co-Host Involuntary Yoga Podcast the insiders scoop on a lot of fights and even some behind-the-scenes stories you have never heard. Tune in as Chris Camozzi joins Bobby Marshall in studio to discuss, MMA, bare knuckle fighting, UFC, kickboxing, archery, hunting, NFL, wildlife, Colorado, outdoor life & much more.
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Chris Camozzi - BKFC CRUISERWEIGHT
Our guest for this episode is Chris Camozzi. He's a top-rank Bare Knuckle FC Fighter, UFC veteran, and the Cohost of the Involuntary Yoga podcast. I enjoyed his company. Although we have a lot of mutual friends, this is the first time that we had met. Chris has much more than a professional fighter. He's an absolute savage in anything that he tackles in life. It was a great conversation. Enjoy the episode.
Chris, you are finally doing this. A little bit of back and forth and some travel in there.
It's my fault. I bailed.
No, it's not. I pushed you off a weekend. You were supposed to come in.
I don't think you did. I bailed a few times. I'm a hard guy to lock down. I got too many jobs right now.
I'm happy to have you. No hard feelings at all on that front.
I appreciate it. I was excited to come to Evergreen too. I haven't been up here in a minute. What's this restaurant right here on the corner? Is it Big Bear or Little Bear?
Little Bear. It's a spot.
Going back to high school, I went to Bear Creek. Over Thanksgiving break, our wrestling team used to have to run from Morrison to Evergreen and so that's where we would end. I have been up to Evergreen since then.
Would you guys run up Bear Creek Canyon?
Yeah. We would get dropped off at the Mexican restaurant in Morrison.
Awesome margaritas there. Morrison Inn.
We would start there and run up the canyon and then that's where we finished. The coach would buy everybody breakfast, but the whole team had to run and I have nightmares about that.
This was a wrestling team. As a kid, I grew up right here and we used to lie to my parents. If you are reading, I'm sorry. I never meant to lie to you. I'd be like, “I'm going to Josh's house and I'm going to spend the night.” He'd be like, “I'm going to Bobby's. I'm going to spend the night.” We would ride BMX bikes down Bear Creek Canyon to go catch the Grateful Dead or something at Red Rocks. Going down was no problem, but coming home was a bitch, so we would hitchhike.
How old were you?
I must have been ten.
I remember going to Red Rocks and the same thing. My friends and I would go up there. We didn't have tickets, but the Grateful Dead would be playing and we would sit up on the rocks and listen to it. I remember the first time going. We are openly selling drugs as you walk through.
We saw cops in there buying drugs.
I didn't even know what they were talking about. People were like, “Do you want whatever?” I'm like, “I'm good.” I was an athlete and everything in high school, but we went for the music. Even the terms people were saying it smelled so bad, patchouli and hippies.
It was a different scene back then, back when Jerry was still in the band. We were honestly going to check out naked hippie chicks.
I know exactly what you are talking about.
As a 10-year-old or 11-year-old kid, we thought it was awesome. I still don't even like the Grateful Dead music. It's okay. I'm never going to put it on just when I'm chilling. I would have to be highly intoxicated and maybe on some psilocybin or something to even experience Grateful Dead.
It was the same for us. It was the atmosphere. It was such a big deal. The Deadheads were camping in Morrison and everything and posting up in people's yards. We were like, “Let's go see what this is about.”
They would take over the town.
South Park even did an episode on it. They couldn't get rid of them. I remember having a friend in high school who lived in Morrison and had pictures of people camping in his front yard. They didn't even ask. They like, “Here's where we are staying.”
The dead would take over Red Rocks for a week too. It'd be 4 or 5 days straight. Me and my buddies got hit to it and we were like, “We are going to make some money.” We would go to the grocery store and either buy or steal a bunch of candy lollipops and all kinds of stuff and then throw it in our backpacks, go down there, and they'd buy it.
They'd buy or barter.
Luckily, we never got beat up, killed, kidnapped, or hitchhiking home. That is a long-ass truck up fucking Bear Creek Canyon and it's all uphill.
It's 11 or 13 miles. Maybe it's not Bear Creek Canyon. Is that the Canyon? From Morrison when you keep going up.
If you come right out of Main Street here in Evergreen and go straight to Red Rocks and follow the river that runs through town. That's Bear Creek Canyon.
It's a real small road up and that was the prize at the top. That was the only thing you got. It wasn't money or anything else. It was free breakfast and to do it to be part of the team.
Was the breakfast at the Little Bear?
That was the end goal and they would time you. This was horrible. I remember the first time I did it, I didn't show up prepared at all. I showed up in shorts, a t-shirt, and a beanie and it was lightly snowing. Everybody else is bundled up and I'm like, “I'm going to be running. I'm going to going to be hot.” I'm running and everything. My shirt froze but I couldn't feel it until the top. I get to the top.
My shirt was frozen. I go to pull my shirt off. It doesn't come off. It's stuck and I'm bleeding. My nipples are bleeding and everything, but it was so numb I couldn't feel it. Once you start thawing out, I had blood all over my chest, stomach, and everything. I don't miss that. I wouldn't do that anymore, but it was a good rite of passage back then growing up around here.
You have been in Colorado for a minute then? Since through high school and middle school too?
I moved here in ’96 or ‘97 from Northern California in the Bay Area. Middle school and high school here and pretty much a local. Are you from here?
I'm a city local.
The people that hold the native badge and the bumper stickers and stuff are a little too hardcore for me. Even though I grew up here, I went out and experienced the world and some other cultures and stuff. I left here for close to twenty years, and then I have come back to raise my kids here, which is super cool. There are some people that are hardcore and all these fuckers from California moving in. Everybody in my neighborhood is from out of state. Especially since the pandemic, it's even tripled. There's one person in the little subdivision that I live in that's a Colorado native family in an Evergreen.
I have gotten so used to it because maybe it's changed now because of my girlfriend. When I'm talking to people, I'm like, “I'm not a native,” and this and that. When I go through the story, she's like, “Why don't you say you are a native?” I used to get corrected all the time through high school, into college, and everything. People are like, “You weren't born here. You are not a native.” Like you are saying, they would be offended by it. I got used to being like, “I'm not.” You got to be honest.
It's like, “Are you a native? Do you come from Native American blood?” It's so weird to me. I don't understand it.
The last ones here hold that tight.
Not that I'm not proud of it. I am super proud. My family goes twelve generations deep here. At some point, some of them got on a boat and came over here to homestead. Technically, they are not native.
At some point, nobody's a native here. We’re all English.
We have all been bred down to mutts. I have a connection with here and all that, growing up here. One reason why I started this show was to help raise some awareness about the influx of people that we have seen in the state and the way public land is getting used and all that stuff. It's evolved into something that's more of my own greed, having bad motherfuckers like you in to talk to and stuff like that. We still bounce around those premises. Have you noticed a huge change since you have been here?
Most of my life. That's why it's weird to not say that I'm from here. If you are reading this and you don't live here, this place sucks. Don't come here.
That's what I always tell people when I'm sitting at a bar or something. They see my ID if I get carded. They are like, “Colorado. It's awesome there.” I was like, “No, it sucks. It's cold all the fucking time.” We have school shootings. It's a horrible place to live.
It was the Vikings. They had it right because back in the day they called Greenland. They reversed Greenland to Iceland. Iceland is a lot lusher and everything and Greenland is frozen. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel you are never hearing that. They reversed the name so it was like you wouldn't go.
Those Vikings were very clever.
We will call this place LA. You don't want to come here.
It might as well be now. I lived in Hermosa Beach for about fifteen years and in Redondo, that whole little South Bay Area. It was so amazing when I first moved in there. I would have died, growing up there during the real punk rock era when the church was going on. Black Flag and all those bands were playing at that church, but it's probably a good thing I didn't because I'd probably be dead or in jail.
I moved into Hermosa Beach and that was amazing, but it's weird. To me, it feels like California politics. Colorado is a great spot but I feel like we are going down that road and not even to dive into politics. I could honestly give a fuck about it, but I feel Colorado is slowly turning into that more taxes and government control. It used to be like the Wild West a little bit when we were growing up even.
Colorado is a great spot, but it's slowly turning into something that has more taxes and more government control where it used to be more like the Wild West.
That's why I used to tell everybody, I'm like, “Colorado is the best. We have guns. We have weed.” We are down the middle, it felt like. It was the best of both worlds. I'm the same. I could go on politics and stuff all day but that's how I used to describe it. Guns and weed because those were two polar opposite things.
I was like, “Nobody gives a shit.” You do whatever you want to do. They mind their own business. The people are nice. They are friendly. You go to LA or New York in those big cities. You are walking and somebody has to move and they will be like, “Fuck off.” Here they are like, “Excuse me.” People open doors for you here or used to.
You have to run into somebody or be trapped in the same space as somebody to have a conversation. In LA, even in the beach towns, there are so many fucking people you keep to yourself. I don't want to talk to everybody I pass on the sidewalk because that's 150 people in a mile.
I used to go out there a bunch and that was the thing. Everybody's first question is, “What do you do? How much money do you make?” That's how they would scale what person you are.
It was like sitting in first class. It's always that, “What do you do?” I always lie to them. I always tell them like, “I don't know. Hot air race team.”
“I rob people.” That will stop the conversation quickly.
If somebody asks me like, “Did you go to college?” I'm like, “I got a degree.” They are like, “In what?” “Anger management.” They are like, “Do you teach anger management?” I was like, “No. I just graduated.” The status is funny and I'm starting to see that here. One reason why I left LA to raise my kids here is that. Living in Hermosa Beach, you have Manhattan, Redondo, and Palos Verdes. Money is pouring out of that place, and Hermosa and Redondo are considered the poor section which is insane. That's where we lived.
My wife taught dance ballet there and these parents are showing up. They are all doctors, lawyers, or rock stars even. My wife used to teach the Lindberg girls, Jim Lindberg from Pennywise. It was a cool little community of that, but it was very much. Even at that young age, it was keeping up with the Joneses. It was all about whether they got the latest iPhone or this or that. I was like, “I got to get my kids out of here.”
You are also like, “These don’t matter.”
Why I loved living there was the debauchery. I loved parking my truck on the weekends and having nothing but my beach cruiser to cruise around from bar to grocery store to passing girls in bikinis. All kinds of different stuff are happening right there on the strand. It's like, “That can be intoxicating.” If I had gone to high school there, I wouldn't have gone to school. I would have been surfing every day and hanging out on the beach, drinking 40s, and going to Mickey's Deli for a cheese sandwich.
You'd still be doing the same thing. I would have killed to live there back in the day and then I was an adult. I'm like, “There's no chance. California is beautiful but I would not live there.”
Coming back here was a blessing in disguise too. I feel so good that I'm here and I forgot how awesome it is. Being away for so long and traveling the world made me appreciate this place. Growing up here, I was like, “Fuck this place. I'm never going to make it.”
Nobody knows about this place.
It's the same old, same old. I'm so sick of going ice skating at the lake.
Did you grow up here in Evergreen?
We still keep it incognito. You'd have to hunt to find it. You don’t have to tail me in or something. We don't have any signs up, but we have dropped it. The locals give me some shit about it. I'm sorry. I don't have this huge audience. I'm not Rogan or somebody.
Nobody is. We all want to be.
An influence. A mentor for sure.
I love this town too. It's a little stretched but it's beautiful. I passed a frozen lake on the way up here. People are running and walking around. In Colorado, the one thing that I love is it's like an active fit state. There's stuff like, “Do I always do it?” “No, I'm busy,” but I always talk about doing it or wanting to do it. I always say like every weekend, I want to go to the mountains and do this and that. I don't do it as often, but the option is there, which feels good inside at least.
The one thing that's a misconception like I have lived in some other states. The amount of public land that we have here is fucking amazing. It's 40% of the state. Some of the wilderness areas are out here. I know you hunt a little bit, don't you?
I have gotten out of it a little bit. Not on purpose. It's time, life, and everything, but I want to get back in. That's my goal. In the next few years, I’ll get all my gear and everything back. Get back into it because I love checking out. It feels awkward at first. You get wherever you are going in the backcountry and stuff and there's no service.
Disconnecting from social media or your phone, nobody could call you if they wanted. After a day, it's amazing. One of my favorite things to do was to hike to the top of peaks hunting by myself and I'd sit there all day. You can figure out so many things in life just by sitting there quietly and enjoying the pretty scenery.
You don't even have to be on animals. That's one thing that I got to remember when I got out there because I'm so bloodthirsty at first. You have been waiting all year. You have been training all year for it. That's why I revolve all my weightlifting around any of my cardio. It's solely for bow hunting. That's the only reason.
I'm not trying to be a professional hunter. I'm trying to be successful and it's fucking hard. I'm not Cameron Hanes. I'm not John Dudley, Donnie Vincent, or some of these amazing bow hunters that are out there. I live for that moment so then, the first couple of days, I go fucking a little too hard. I got to remind myself like, “I'm here for eight days.”
I can sit here and enjoy the sunrise or sunset or those moments that are better than the actual hunt. Taking an animal, to me, it’s like experiencing some of those things or seeing a mountain lion, which is super rare. I have spent a ton of time in the backcountry, growing up in the backcountry. I grew up bow hunting. I have only seen two lions. I saw one last 2022 came into my cow call because I was heading up a trail and that was a special moment.
When you're hunting by yourself, you can sit there and just enjoy the sunrise, the sunset, or other moments like that, which are actually better than the actual hunt.
I have seen a couple of them. It makes your heart race a little and you are like, “Shit.”
It happened so fast. I was headed up a game trail. I was cow calling, going really slow, and being super quiet. I saw something out of my peripheral and all I remember seeing was a long ass tail. I was like, “Fuck.”
It is cool. That was always my thing. As I said, I took a break from hunting. I still hunt birds and stuff, but big game hunting takes a lot more planning. I went through divorce and stuff and a lot of my gear was maybe left behind and then resetting. I used to hunt with my ex-in-laws and everything. Finding a new group to go with, those are the things I'm figuring out now where I'm going to go, with who, and then getting the stuff back.
Before that, I never cared about getting anything. That was the goal, but just getting out there. As you said, I would sit in meadows and stuff on top of peaks. After all the work you put in walking up there and then sitting there, you would see wildlife and stuff coming through. You are silent and then your brain starts turning. I feel like you figure out a lot more things in life too.
Especially if you are by yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong because I don't want to speak for you. You have been in the fight game for probably at least twenty years.
It's going to make me sound old, like seventeen years.
I would imagine myself included, we hit you up for the show. Everybody wants a piece of your time, I would imagine.
I'm not a superstar or anything. I take on too many things. That's my problem. I like money so I don't say no. I end up with all these jobs, side hustles, this, and that. I think I know where you are going. That stillness.
It’s a moment when nobody can contact you. Unless you have a satellite device or something like that, but I'm very selective on who I give that to. It's like my wife only and it’s like somebody better be dying or one of the kids better be dying.
That will be the thing. You are hunting a big bull and that thing rings and you are like, “I'm going to kill you.”
It's good for checking in and stuff. Those things you can start to rely on them. If that thing dies and then, what are you going to do?
GPS is important especially if you are going to get way back there. I have been lost before. It’s not fun. I didn't have any of that.
I always still try to navigate from a map or something, but I do have that in case I need to contact somebody or something.
That's smart, especially because you got kids too. You can't fully check out when you have kids if there's an emergency.
If we go backcountry with the kids, that's the main reason I bought it. It has that SOS device or I could maybe contact somebody.
You take them with you.
Not hunting just yet. They are still pretty young.
How old are they?
I have a five-year-old now in 2023, which I appreciate you moving the time because she won her first dance competition.
She's probably pumped.
She was so pumped. She's a little savage. She might be a fighter someday.
Dancing is a good start.
It’s footwork. I have my ten-year-old son who’s dying to hunt elk right now, but still a lot of work. I don't get a whole lot of time. That's my thing. When he's old enough to get out there and do it, then I will take him, but I was like, “First, we are going to go on a turkey hunt,” because that's like hunting elk.
Bird hunting is a good warm-up.
He hasn't physically taken an animal yet, not even a small game animal. There's a little bit of an emotional rollercoaster that happens with that too. I want him to learn that. My oldest daughter is on her own fucking program. She will never go with me, but she loves what I do. She's a little savage herself, but she's training to be a pro athlete herself.
What does she do?
She does ballet.
Not the five-year-old, right?
Both my daughters do ballet, and then my son. Shout-out to Eric Telly. We were talking about him right before the show too. He wants to play football. I'm all in on it.
Props to you for taking them to Landow because that's a world-class facility. Even all the biggest pro athletes in Colorado train there. The kids that are there, the structure that they have, footwork, and everything, no matter what your sport. Christian McCaffrey came out of there. Also, Missy Franklin and some superstar athletes. Christian was going there when he was eleven. He started to train with them. They are smart. They are not having them throw around weight and everything.
Chris Camozzi: Landow Performance is a world-class facility. The biggest professional athletes in Colorado train there.
They make it fun and that's what I love about Eric. We have had Eric on the show a couple of times. I don't know if you have caught that. He name-dropped you a couple of times. You have been on my shortlist for a long time because Eric reminded me. He is like, “You should have Chris Camozzi.” I was like, “Hell, yeah.” That's why I reached out to you. Thanks, Eric, if you are reading this.
I knew about Loren Landow because I'm a huge Denver Broncos fan. I grew up as a Denver Broncos fan and all that stuff. I knew through other guests that we have had on the show and following. I'm a big UFC fan or MMA fan in general, whether it's Bellator, Glory, or any of those organizations. It’s pretty badass and I enjoy watching that. The number of fighters that train here in Denver and that are in the Rocky Mountain region is fucking insane, and they all pretty much go to Landow.
There are not very many I can name that don't like if they are the who's who of the top.
I always see the videos of you guys’ training and that stuff. I remember hearing Loren Landow a long time ago in the fight game. He's been around for a long time. I thought it was an exclusive club. When we had Eric in, I was telling him like, “This is the first year that my son played tackle football.” He is like, “Fucking bring him down. Let's get some work in.”
It's been awesome. We have taken him down there because I was trying to coach him myself. I have nothing against his Pee Wee coaches or anything. They are awesome, but they are not teaching these hardcore pro fundamentals. They have 30 kids on the team that they are trying to herd cats honestly and get plays off.
I played growing up and everything too. Most of those coaches are hobbyists or they played high school football and stuff too. I first started learning how to lift weights in middle school. Looking at that, it was a teacher teaching gym class. It’s the structure that they have and the form. They are so particular about form and injury prevention. I'm a professional athlete. We talked about it for several years now. MMA might be on the low spectrum of professional athletes.
You guys should be on the top tier honestly.
As far as athletic performance. We were running sprints like shuttle runs, and then they were showing me that there's a whole form to cutting, turning, this and that, and how to do it. They are teaching these kids that are coming up how to do that so that they are so efficient. You are not going to learn that at your school or your Pee Wee coach unless your coach came from the NFL.
They don't have the time. They get an hour with these kids and the parents are already chomping at the bit to pull them like to go do something else or go home and have dinner.
They are volunteering so no fault of theirs.
Not at all. Even if they did have those skills, they couldn't implement them in the amount of time. For example, I'm one of those coaches. I only played high school ball. I never played any sport at a professional level. I'm a nobody when it comes to the athletic realm. I know how to lift some weights and I have studied some people, but I have never done it as a profession. I was a roadie.
If you want to know how to build a stage, back a truck into a fucking place, or drink a bottle at Jack Daniel’s, I'm your guy. When it comes to actual professional performance and actual coaching, I never even got that in high school. We have some fundamentals. We would go to the weight room but it was about the time you put in the weight room.
There was nobody in there teaching us form. It was all about how much you could bench, squat, deadlift, and what the record board said, what position you played, and all that sorts of thing. When I started teaching my kid when he came to me, he was like, “I want to play football.” I was like, “Shit,” because it was something I wasn't going to push on him. I was, “Okay.” We got him suited up. It was the middle of summer and I was like, “Catch the football, shoulder pads, and helmet.” I was doing like Oklahoma with him. Give him a little taste.
You're on Amazon, ordering him Creatine and stuff. You are like, “Your dad's retirement plan.”
I was making him run sprints and do some cutting stuff, but to coach him to run faster, it was always like, “Run harder.” He was the third fastest kid on the team, which he felt some status with. Having Eric in here, understanding those fundamentals, and having pro athletes sit across from me like you, I want to give my kid every opportunity I can.
It was awesome. I hit Eric up and he's like, “Absolutely bring him down,” and I hate asking for anything. I'm not that guy, but Eric has been so just generous and open-armed like, “Come in.” He has made time for Tyler. It's cool and we have gone down there because he's the only ten-year-old kid that's typically in there.
It's either Denver Bronco wide receivers working with Loren or guys getting ready to go to the Columbine. There will be 30 college kids there, and then there's Tyler who's 10 years old, working on fundamentals. For the first 6 times that we have been there, we have done maybe 5 or 6 hours. We started going. We have worked on nothing but starting on the line, body position, and posture. There's so much weight on your lead leg, where your arm should be, and then some cutting and that's about it. That's how much goes into it. I have learned a ton. I feel I have knocked 2 seconds off my 40.
It's the same for me. I watch because they train every athlete differently too. I'm there when a lot of the Columbine guys are there and stuff. I'm like, “Why don't I do that?” They are doing power cleans and stuff. I never do power cleans and I remember I haven't asked since because I got the exact answer I needed. This was years ago. Loren used to be my coach.
It was Loren and Eric. Loren got his job with the Broncos, so then just Eric. I don't mean just Eric if you are reading this, Eric. I remember asking Loren one time. I'm like, “Every time I'm here I see the NFL guys doing power cleans and stuff, and they are throwing weight. Why don't I do power cleans?” He's like, “It’s because you don't know how to power clean. You don't know how to do it right. You are going to hurt yourself.” I'm like, “I did it in high school,” and he is like, “It's exactly what I'm talking about. That's not sports-specific for you. Power cleans for those linemen and stuff. It’s all pop and that quick second. That doesn't equate to punching. In anything that you do, there's no need for you to do power cleans.”
They train. It's cool because they put so much time and effort into programming and it's not like, “Okay.” There are a ton of gyms that will have everybody do the same thing like CrossFit. You go to a CrossFit gym. Everyone does the same workout, whether you are 70 or the new 18-year-old. There's no sport-specific or anything. Everything there is completely structured around you individually even as a group.
There are a lot of gyms that will have everybody do the same thing, like CrossFit. You go to a CrossFit gym, and everyone does the same workout, whether you're 70 or 18. There's nothing sport-specific or anything.
It's the science behind it like that Proteus machine. I always see you posting about it. You and I have gone back and forth on that online or Instagram or something. That thing is crazy. It's like this scientific machine. It measures your weight, speed, and all kinds of stuff.
It keeps a profile for you. Now when I use it, Eric types in my name and stuff and it pulls up my numbers from the last time over the last weeks or months. It will keep an entire profile and I'm competitive. When I see that and I'm like, “I got to beat that number,” and then I get mad when I don't. I feel each time should be better.
We talked about this on Eric's podcast, but this machine is crazy. It's got all these different handles and it looks like a robot or something.
Have you used it yet? Did you get to try it?
Eric let me try it when I was down there. He's had Tyler use it a little bit. Tyler is a little small for it. If they had a kid’s version, maybe, but he could still do stuff on it.
Shout-out to Proteus. They don't sponsor me or anything, but I love using their machine. When he goes upwards, you assume there's weight on it. Say it's 20 pounds. It's 20 pounds to push up, but 20 pounds to pull down, full range of motion. If you push it in, it's 20 pounds. Pull it out. It's complete resistance every which way you use it. It's different. When you watch this, it looks like she's lifting it up, and then it drops down.
It's resistance the whole time.
She has to push it down. It's still 20 pounds or whatever you set it at.
That thing's pretty amazing. I wish I could afford to have one here in the studio or something.
The thing is gigantic. It'd be smacking walls around here. Your neighbors would love you.
They already do love us. That's awesome.
It's a cool machine.
How long have you been going to Landow for a minute before Loren was with the Broncos?
It's been ten years or more.
They were in a different building when you first started with them.
It was Landow Performance and Steadman-Hawkins. They were upstairs of a business center, a lot smaller, and then they got a different facility down the street from where they are now, which was five times as big, and then, this one's ten times bigger.
It’s so awesome in there. Just go in there and look at the jerseys and everybody that's worked out there. Loren and the leaderboard with the 20-mile-an-hour speed limit sign. You have this Proteus machine as the most state-of-the-art thing there. Everything else there might as well be a caveman area. There are some pull-up racks, a few of those curve treadmills or Assault treadmills but there's not what you would think in there. It's grid iron work, some hurdles, jump boxes, and all that stuff.
It's structured programming. It's funny you say that about the jerseys. You talk about the jerseys. I used to see all those and I would come in every day and be like, “Cool. I see different ones.” I gave Loren one of my UFC jerseys, gloves, and everything and he got it framed. It was in his office. It was the break room. I used to come in, would move other jerseys, and slowly move mine to the premier spot.
Now they have it out in the middle because they knew that I wasn't going to give up on it. I kept moving. Whose jersey did I move one time? It was Brady Quinn. I was like, “I have played as many NFL downs as that guy. Put my jersey out there. I'm fighting UFC.” I kept moving it out there and now, it's out there. It's at the end of the turf.
I will have to look for it the next time we are down there.
Loren would come in and be like, “Did you move something?” I'm like, “I don't know what you are talking about.”
You have been going there for a minute. You started your career at the amateur level of fighting or what got you into fighting? I have been watching you for a minute. I was a big fan of The Ultimate Fighter the TV series and this was back in Chuck Liddell or Tito Ortiz’s days. I didn't realize that I had watched you on it because I only recognized so many faces going through there, but I was like, “Shit.” When I was looking it up, I was like, “I did watch Chris there and I do remember him breaking his jaw.”
I used to buzz my head. I had no beard. I couldn't grow a beard until I was 26. Now, it's going gray. I got a short one though. I grew up playing every sport you could think of, from soccer, baseball, football, swimming, and everything when I got to high school. I went to Denver schools for middle school and then I switched to Bear Creek which is in Lakewood. Once you get out of Denver schools, it's a little bit better.
Bear Creek is awesome. I had a bunch of friends that went there so we will have to talk after this. I'm sure we know some similar people or the same people.
Once I got there, I didn't know a lot of people. I didn't go to middle school with these people. I switched schools. I knew nobody pretty much when I went there. I played football so I went through the summer camps and stuff. Somebody was talking about wrestling or maybe the coach came in, going around classes. I was like, “I will try that. That sounds cool.”
I went out for wrestling, not knowing anything about wrestling. We did it for a week in middle school. I ended up winning the thing in middle school. I'm doing pretty well but didn't know anything. We didn't learn anything. I went out for wrestling and I remember the first practice. I had never sweat like that before in my life. I didn't know that that's what working out was.
I went out for wrestling, and I remember the first practice. I had never sweated like that before in my life. I didn't know that's what working out was.
Even playing football, sweat runs down, this, and that. You don't pay attention. With no gear on, I was pouring on the ground. It was dripping off me, but it felt great. I was like, “This is awesome.” I am a high-energy person, too, like ADD. All that running around, wrestling, and drilling were great for me and I just got hooked. I wrestled from freshman year to senior year. I did okay. I never had what it takes to go to college for sure. I would wrestle. This goes into fighting too. Depending on where our team was, I was 189. I don't know if the weights are the same anymore.
I was always at heavyweight. You never knew if you were getting somebody that was jacked or Jabba the Hutt. It sucked.
One of my best friends, Travis Pitt, was my same weight. I never beat him. I would never be on the varsity team. I was like, “This sucks.” He had wrestled since he was four. He was one of those people. He went to national tournaments all over the place, everything. He was a stud. Our whole team was stacked so I would go to different weights. It would let me be on the varsity team so I wrestled heavyweight for our varsity team line.
I weighed 190 pounds if that. I used to drink water. Everybody else was cutting weight and the same thing. Some of those guys would be 260 and either jacked or Jabba the Hutt but I would fill in. If somebody got sick, I would go down the weight, and so I was on the varsity team. I just liked doing it and I liked the competition. No matter how big they were, I was like, “Put me in. I will do it.”
Had you done any martial arts or anything before that or it was just high school wrestling?
I did karate as a kid and then I quit because all I wanted to do was spar. My sister kept getting all these belts for learning the katas and stuff. I refused to do it in the air. I was like, “I want to go and spar.” When everybody was doing it in the gym, facing the mirrors, I would half-assed it but then when we got to put the pads and stuff on, I was all about doing it. She kept getting belts. I didn't because I never memorized any of this stuff. I wanted to fight people.
When everybody was doing it in the gym facing the mirrors, I was just like half-assed, but then when we got to put the pads and stuff on, I was all about doing it. I just wanted to fight people.
It sounds like you were at a real karate gym because now they give them away every three months or something like, “Here you go kid.”
Even going back to that, I remember I had this guy. It was in California. When I hear this now, I'm like, “This might have been a horrible gym or the douchiest thing ever.” At the end of classes, you would line everybody up and you got one chance to punch him in the stomach. It sounds so cringy now as an adult and in martial arts. He's like, “If you knock me down, I will give you a black belt.” I remember every time, I was like, “This is my time. I'm going to drop him.” He wouldn't even move. I'm seven.
Looking back, I wish I knew the name of it. I'm like, “I wonder how horrible this gym was my parents were taking me to.” Fast forward, I played wrestling and then played rugby in high school which I loved. I got out of football. I ended up fracturing my femur playing football as a freshman and then steered away from it. I wasn't super fond of the coaches and stuff and it was not from me. I played rugby and I loved that. It was such a fun sport. I like the aggressiveness too. You could fight on the rugby field and you don't even get kicked out.
There are no pads. You might as well be in a fight like scrums or something. I have only played a couple of times and I was always getting pulled by guys that were playing in these little leagues. They are like, “Come play with us,” because I was always been a big dude. I went a couple of times. I was like, “This is fucking brutal.”
Our team in high school was amazing. We killed it. We were combined with Wheat Ridge and we dominated everybody. We were known as the misfits of rugby. We got fistfights on the field and stuff. The best part about it was like you get in a fight, you are swinging, and they are like, “You are in the penalty box in three minutes.” You are like, “All right.”
You get to come back and play. I was like, “This sport is amazing.” I'm getting way off track here, but we were winning an insane amount one time. We were that good. I want to say it was about 60 points and then, two of my teammates got in a fistfight against each other on the field, and my coach is like, “What is going on? You guys are destroying them and you are fighting each other.”
If you saw it, our team looked like they were from prison. They were like hooligans. Nobody looked the same. We had metal heads and big jocks, everything. Going to that and going through high school, I always liked contact sports. I went off to college. I played rugby in college for one semester. It wasn't a great team. It was at Fort Lewis in Durango. It was a club team, but it was like a party in play. We'd go to ASU.
It is a little different, but we'd go to ASU. I was like, “This is awesome.” We played rugby and then we'd party all weekend. Once the season ended, I was like, “This college is not for me.” To be honest, I didn't even know what a liberal arts college was, and I wish my mom might have known too. I went to a liberal arts college and I was thinking I would get to take the classes I wanted. They are like, “You have to do Math, English, and all this.” It sounds stupid but I found out while I'm there that that's what liberal arts meant.
I dropped out right after the season and I was like, “This is it. I'm going back home.” I get home to Denver. I'm working a job I hate, working at warehouses and stuff. A buddy of mine that I wrestled with called me and he was like, “I started doing jiu-jitsu, this and that.” I'm like, “What's that?” He's like, “It's like wrestling but you get to submit people and stuff. You should come with me.”
It was in Lakewood and it was called Gumm Mixed Martial Arts. This is a pretty pivotal time. That's why I'm putting so much time into it. The gym that I walked into happened to be great. It was a hole in the wall. It was maybe 2,000 square feet, but the owner was a black belt in jiu-jitsu and fought in UFC in the 2000s.
The gym I walked into happened to be a great gym. It was like a hole in the wall, maybe 2,000 square feet. The owner was a black belt in jiu-jitsu and fought in the UFC. I'm so lucky that I walked into that, because I started learning real stuff.
This was early-2000s then?
This was in 2006.
This is unheard of because it was hard to find a school back then. There was this huge craze for it, but not so much here in Colorado.
I didn't research the gym or anything. I just went. I always say this. I'm so lucky that I walked into that because I started learning real stuff. Brad Gumm was the owner. He fought in the early UFCs, but he was only a few years older than me. He was 5 years older, but he had like 40 fights or something by the time he was teaching. It was such a small gym. I trained with him all the time. Many classes had eight people. That built my career. The people in the class that we had all did real well and went on to have pro careers and stuff.
We didn't do weight classes. We could only have two people sparring at a time on the mat. That's how small it was. It didn't matter if you were 125 pounds and I'm 200 pounds if it was your turn to be in. It made people tough as hell, hard gym. We were hitting people through the walls. We were going through the drywall. It was like a gladiator school gym.
I got into it. I only went to do it for fun as a workout because I missed wrestling and playing sports. I was working a job that I hated. I never knew that you could fight locally. I knew what the UFC was, but I didn't know that there were regional local shows. I didn't know that you could get into fighting that. I thought these guys in the UFC were discovered somewhere.
I did it for about nine months. I was fairly fresh off wrestling and stuff, so still in shape. Brad asked me, “Are you ever interested in doing MMA?” I was like, “Let's do it.” He was like, “I could get you a fight.” I fought at the Red Lion Hotel on I-70 in Quebec. I had a few there and I did well. I had one amateur fight and I lost a decision and then went pro. I lost a decision that is still questionable. I knocked this guy's teeth out and everything. He threw up in the ring and then I lost a decision based on that. This was at heavyweight too and I had to gain weight.
At weigh-ins, they were like, “You are too light.” I had to chug a bunch of water to fight heavyweight. Right after that, Colorado came up with this rule. They outlawed amateur MMA and I already had a fight lined up. It's the stupidest thing ever. They call it elimination fighting. They changed its name. At the time, I already had an opponent. It was a few weeks out.
Colorado came up with this rule that outlawed amateur MMA, and I already had a fight lined up. They call it elimination fighting.
The promoter called and was like, “He can't fight anymore unless he wants to go pro.” He's like, “You can fight the same guy. You’re just going to have to get licensed as a pro.” I was like, “Let's do it.” I ended up winning that and then, I won seven in a row. Back then, I used to get home. I worked nights. I bounced at clubs and strip clubs. I left the warehouse job. Once I started training in MMA, I was like, “I want to do this all day long.” I found night jobs, bouncing, so I could train all day. When I was done training, I would go home and email promoters all the time.
I would search this show and that. I would try to find their email and send out 100 a day, trying to get myself fights. I didn't have a manager or anything. I happened to hit up this promotion in Canada called Maximum Fighting Championship and they had somebody fall out. They were looking for an opponent against a guy named Jesse Forbes. He was on The Ultimate Fighter 3. They are like, “You are in. Do you want to do it? You got to get a passport.” I have never been out of the country or anything.
From pounding the keyboard, you eventually found your way in to talk to somebody.
This promoter hit me back and they brought me in to lose. It was on HDNet. I don't know if you remember that channel.
I remember Fuel TV because I went back to watch some of your old fights which reminds me, I got to bring something up here.
This is way before Fuel. Mark Cuban owned it. It was called HDNet Fights. It was televised and I was pumped. I was the co-main event and they brought me in to lose for sure because it was short notice and everything.
Is that where they were showing Tough on?
No. Ultimate Fighter was on Spike back then.
That's what it was. I knew that there was another network. Those TV channels back then, like Spike and Fuel TV, were so badass because it was all freestyle Motocross. Surfing was big. Punk rock and fighting fell into that genre.
Anyway, I was going even further. I was about to go through the whole career. That's how I got into it.
You get into it. You get there and had a good run. You had a couple of good showings from what I remember. You had one fight where you thought you had a toothache or something and then you fractured your jaw so you got sent home.
In The Ultimate Fighter, I had won a ton and I was knocking everybody out TKOs. I didn't have a lot of submissions. I'm biased. I will say they are always great fights. They are exciting, but I would always finish everybody.
When I got on the Ultimate Fighter, I had won a ton and was knocking everybody out with TKOs. I didn't have a lot of submissions. They were always great fights; they were exciting, but I would always finish everybody.
I'm a fan of watching your fights. You are one of those people. To compare it to somebody that's fighting now, which you still are, when Justin Gaethje walks into the cage, you know what's going to happen. I enjoy watching violent fighters. Maybe that's from a fans’ perspective, but I always felt like you were a guy that left it all in there and there was always going to be some fireworks. There's going to be some blood. You were doing a lot of stuff in the UFC that I remember. You were a knee machine at one point. You were kneeing everybody.
I learned one thing and I'm like, “I'm going to spam it.”
That was so exciting to watch back then because there weren’t a ton of guys that were doing that.
That's the thing. I will learn something and then, I get hooked. I fixate on things. I'm OCD, but that makes good for coaching. You will show me something and if I like it, I will try it over and over again. I will practice it. I fixate on it. I dream about it, especially highlighting stuff like that. When I learned the flying knee, I was like, “I'm going to throw this on everybody.” It worked against me too.
Being OCD like that too, if you are any professional, whether it's a corporate professional, mixed martial artist, or an artist, somebody that paints, you have to have some level of OCD. Even military people because everything is about keeping everything in order and having it set. I have it. Being a roadie, all roadies have OCD.
You are probably lining up cases a certain way if it was turned.
They are labeled perfect. It's like, “Who the fuck used this over here?” if something didn't go back in the same spot.
I broke my jaw. Another funny story is going to The Ultimate Fighter, I was the alternate on Season 7, and then I was on Season 11. I was almost on Season 7. I was in Vegas while they were filming on standby. We missed weight or got hurt. I didn't get on and go home. You are bummed, but I kept fighting. Season 11 came around and they were doing the same weight class and so they called me.
At first, I was like, “I'm not applying again.” It was miserable. I sat in a hotel room. They made me sit around for an entire day on wait, and then to not get used and you are like, “You barely get paid for it.” Those guys don't make very much money on The Ultimate Fighter. Back then, it was $500 a week while you were gone. Luckily, the cost of living was a little bit cheaper, but $500 was barely paying the bills. You pretty much had to quit your job because who's going to give you six weeks off to go be on a show? If you didn't make it, you put everything into it and now, you better go.
There are a lot of guys that didn't make it, but there are a lot of guys who have built a career. It's not solely off on that. I don't want to say that because it takes much more than that than just going on the TV show. It's a way to get in that limelight a little bit to get known.
Mixed martial arts is a hustle, but it's a way to get in the limelight a little bit and get known.
Also, meet people. When I'm leaving for The Ultimate Fighter, they called me because I wasn't going to apply. They were like, “Do you want to be on this season? Basically, you are on,” but I still had to send in a video and everything and interview, but I didn't have to go to tryouts and everything. They are like, “We have already seen it. We like you. You are pretty much on. Don't fuck up. Don't go to jail. Don't do this. Don't do that.”
I'm leaving for The Ultimate Fighter. They wouldn't tell you if you fight to get in the house or if you are just on the show. It's still up in the air to this day. They don't let you know. Just come ready. I'm at DIA. I'm checking in for my flight and I see a return flight in three days. The UFC has so many miles and everything. They'd already booked everybody’s return flights. I see that, I call my coach, and I was like, “I'm fighting to get in the house because they have a return flight booked for me in case I don't win,” and then we go from there.
I met everybody going to the interviews. The guy that I ended up fighting on The Ultimate Fighter to get into the house was the guy I hung out with the most at the interviews, he and another guy. I fought a guy named Victor O'Donnell. He was from Ohio. One of my friends, Brian Rogers, who lives out here now used to train at Factory X and was in Bellator and stuff. He was from Ohio. I remember him telling me before that. He's like, “If you fight this guy, no problem. He's all ground. He's going to try to wrestle you. He's going to try to submit you,” everything.
I get Victor. I'm thinking in my head, “All wrestling ground. Be ready for him to shoot.” This was before you could find a ton of tape on everybody or anything. We go out and have a three-round slug match just back and forth and it was brutal. Maybe the fight was two rounds and we went to a third round like a sudden death round or it was three and we went to a fourth round. We had to go an extra round. It was like jacking each other back and forth.
They do that in some fight organizations, too, because I remember in Glory or something. You go on an extra round.
Bare Knuckle does the same. A lot of them do now because they don't want a draw. Fans hate draws. You feel unfulfilled. We are on there back and forth, smashing each other. It was cool because Tito, at some point, took a liking to me and that's your dream. I grew up watching him. During the fight, he stands up. He's by the cage, giving me instructions, and stuff.
I ended up winning the fight in the sudden death round. Victor and I were both smashed up. He went to the hospital. I broke his orbital. They took him out on a stretcher but I finish the fight. He didn't go down, and then I get into the house, but I'm feeling sick and beat up. Right after the fight, we were second to last. That's when they do the production thing. You come out.
Dana is like, “Welcome to The Ultimate Fighter. All of you guys won. You are in.” They then take you in a van. The van pulls up and is a free-for-all. You get out. Everybody runs into the house trying to find the best room and everything. It's not preset. I'm the last out of the van. I was second to last to fight, just dead. Everybody else had quick knockouts and stuff. I knew something was wrong, but I'm like, “Maybe just a rough fight.” I get my room. My bed ended up being in a room with entirely the other team that I didn't end up on. I was the only guy from Tito's team.
I will have to go back and watch this because that's the good part of The Ultimate Fighter. It’s seeing all this bullshit that happens. I wouldn't want to be in it.
We go right into training the next day. Coaches pick teams and they are like, “Let's start training twice a day.” We were sparring and stuff and every time I would get hit, I would stop and be like, “Fuck.” I was grabbing my face and putting my glove on my face.
You are probably not saying anything, because the last thing you want to do is ruin your chance.
It doesn't even occur to me that my jaw is broken or anything. I keep sparring and you don't want to be a baby. You are on TV. There are cameras in your face. Tito and his coaches are like, “Let's go. Get back in there. What are you doing?” You keep going. A week and a half later, the production crew noticed that every time I'm grappling or somebody was on my face, there were cold sweats. They are like, “We want to take you to get checked out.” They take me to a dentist. They X-rayed me. The dentist comes in. He's like, “I see the problem. You have a broken tooth in the back. We are going to pull it.”
I'm like, “Pull it.” It was a back molar. I'm thinking this is my dream. This is my shot. I'm like, “Pull the tooth. I don't care.” They get everything ready. The next day, they took me back to pull my tooth. I'm in there and they have got me geared up and ready to go. All of a sudden, the UFC doctor, this guy Dr. Davidson oversees all the medical. He travels to every show, every country. He's like their guy. He comes walking and he's like, “Stop right now.” He's like, “Let me talk to you, Chris.” He talks to me. He tells me, “You don't have a broken tooth. Your jaw is broken.” He pulls up the X-ray. “It's right here, clear as day.”
At least the UFC cares about you enough to have that because they could have let you keep going if this is really a blood sport.
I got to know him real well. Dr. Davidson is a real solid guy. Everything I ever dealt with him, he’s very honest. He pays attention. The dentist didn't.
They might have fucked you up trying to pull your tooth if you had fractured your jaw or something.
He's like, “Do you know how bad that would have hurt to have them pull a healthy tooth?” My teeth were fine. He goes, “They were going to pull a healthy tooth.” He pulled up the X-ray. I'm not a doctor. He goes, “See that line?” I'm like, “I can see it.” He goes, “Your jaw is broken.” It wasn't broken through in half, but it was fractured up through. After that, I'm thinking. To this day, I still think that dentist was trying to take advantage of the UFC medical like, “We are going to get our money,” because I have heard a lot of dentists can. What do you know?
It's the fucked-up part. You have to trust who you are going to. That's why I pay extra to go see my primary doctor now because any of the other ones I'm going to are the typical by the book, and a lot of them aren't even doctors. They are PAs. If you go to whoever your insurance is, they are like, “You need to be on this or that.”
You have to trust who you're going to. I pay extra to go see my primary doctor because any of the others I'm going to are the typical, by-the-book ones. A lot of them aren't even doctors. They're PAs. You just go to whoever your insurance company is.
The UFC has great health insurance and stuff. They will pay for surgery and everything. These doctors know that. They are like, “Let's get our money.” He stopped the whole thing. I have the bib on everything. They are getting ready.
Did you at least get gas?
No, but they had me prepped and ready to go. Luckily, he came walking in and he was like, “Stop.” They take me back and I think nothing of it. I'm like, “Whatever.” They don't tell me anything. I go back to the training center. I tell Tito. I'm like, “Let me talk to you for a second. I didn't tell everybody else because I might be fighting guys on my team.” He's like, “All right,” and they had a fight pick right after this.
He's like, “Here's what we are going to do.” I don't know if I have ever told you this. This is funny. This is just him and I. He's like, “I have been around Vegas a long time. I know anybody here. You are the most banged up. Most likely, they are going to pick you. If you get picked, before you fight, I will get somebody to come in here and shoot you full of novocaine and everything. You won't feel anything.”
I'm like, “All right, done.” He's like, “Keep your head up. Don't tell anybody.” He was serious. He's like, “I will get a guy to come in here and inject you with novocaine and you won't even know.” If you are reading this, I have nothing against him. I was pushing for it too because I'm like, “I can't go home like this. This is my dream.” He was fulfilling what I wanted.
They picked the fight. It wasn't me. Right after that, Daniel was like, “Hold on here. We got to talk.” I don't know what's going on because people have asked me this since. There's a part on the show where he gives a speech, then he is like, “Chris, step forward.” I'm thinking, “What's up? Are we doing two fights?” He's like, “I'm sorry. You can't continue anymore. You got to go home. Your jaw is fractured.” It crushed me. I was trying to not cry on national TV. It was broken.
Shortly after that, you got called up to the UFC.
I went home thinking that they didn't give me any word of anything. “Go home and heal up. We will be in contact.” I assume it meant like, “Try again.” I go home. I have no job. Luckily, a guy at our gym owned a tech company. He's like, “You come work for me.” This is a whole another story. I was telling him. I got two bags of IV. I had a lady come over.
I would get one every week if I could.
We were talking about that.
I love that shit. Give me the fucking NAD. Whatever is on the menu, I will take it all.
I got NAD. She gave me a B12 shot. I was like, “Give it all to me.”
Tell me about this Fit Soda stuff because this is going to be my first time trying it. Do I need to drink it cold?
It's always better cold.
We got some ice. There's some in that Yeti cup right there. It's clean.
You guys had it set.
We never know if we are going to drink whiskey or tequila.
If I wasn't fighting in a couple of weeks, I don't know. Maybe the whiskey will clear me up. That's what my grandpa used to say.
It does. Do you want a little nip of it?
Throw it in here. I'm fighting Bare Knuckle anyway. They expect it.
We got to dive into that. I want to get back into the UFC stuff with you. This is exclusively from Evergreen Liquors. They brought a special bottle. This is a reserve bottle that we got from Evergreen Liquors. Shout-out. This is good. This is from Luke Caudillo. We got some toast. That was a great episode. I was cracking up.
He and I have played golf and stuff together. Luke is a savage.
What's your flavor?
I will have what you are having.
Let's try this Breckenridge out.
Breckenridge has good whiskey. I don't think I have had that one.
Jeremy, you in? You are going to have to grab a glass. You are in.
There's something to be said about whiskey when you are sick. I swear.
There's something to be said about whiskey when you're sick.
Don't make me fire you.
He’ll make a man out of you.
Tell me about this big news on the contract front. Did you sign a multiple-fight contract? I haven't read into it. What's going on there? Your last fight was fucking insane. First-round knockout, it’s so rad. The sport is amazing.
I enjoyed it a lot.
They are doing it right. I don't get excited about most of these other organizations outside of the UFC. Glory was awesome. Bellator was great back in the day. The fighters that they are bringing in, you included, are people that I want to see. You got Chad Mendes. They are dropping some big names. They got to be dropping some coins.
People ask me. I don't know where their money comes from.
Do you want a big one or we get a taste?
It's been a minute anyway.
I don't want to be the reason.
Here's one thing I have been around doing for a long time. I don't drink during fight camp. One time is not going to hurt you. I remember Chuck Liddell telling me on the show. He's like, “I train hard as fuck. I train all the time. If there are times I want to go out and have a drink, I do.” He's like, “I always make sure I'm not hungover.” If it ruins your training, then it hurts.
It’s all right.
I can't taste the difference.
I don't know. I feel I'm drinking Jim Beam again.
Watch. It’s going to clear me up.
It will. It will help the throat.
What was the question?
Bare Knuckle, is it just a one-fight contract or is it per fight? What's going on there? I'm so pumped and I'm even more pumped that it's happening right here in Colorado.
This is the biggest card they have ever done. It's the first pay-per-view too. It's going to be a pay-per-view. I will pitch the card here. It's Luke Rockhold versus Mike Perry. Chad Mendes versus Eddie Alvarez who's just nuts. Ben Rothwell is fighting Josh Watson who knocked out Greg Hardy. It’s a quick turnaround for him, but he knocked out Greg Hardy. Granted, Greg Hardy is not an amazing fighter, but he's huge. He was way bigger than Josh and those NFL guys pack some power. We know.
It's insane. They are a different level of human.
The athleticism people don't even understand.
We had Josh Walker in here. Do you know Josh?
I don't but I read part of the episode.
He's rad. It was the first time we had met. At the end of the episode, we had a great time. We went for four hours. We drank a lot during the show. At the end of it, I went to go bro down with him. I give him a little slap, a handshake, and then, a pat on the back. I felt like I was slapping a fucking steel I-beam and the same with Derek. Derek is the only guy that when he walks in the studio, I'm like, “Shit.” When he's sitting across from me, he's got his eyes that look through the back of your skull. He's looking past you.
He's one of my friends and I know exactly what you are talking about. I have held mitts for him. I train with him a little bit. He wants to get back to it. I don't want to call him out on here, but he texted me and he said, “Bare Knuckle,” and then the thinking emoji, and I was like, “Do you want any?” I was like, “They will have you in a match.” He's another kind of athlete. You see a big guy like that and we are not small, but we are way smaller. We look like different species. You are like, “I could at least outrun that guy.” You are not outrunning him either. You can't out-juke that guy. The athletic ability of those guys is insane.
He's just a monster. I'm a pretty big dude. I'm 6’3’’, 255. I don't feel small in most places, but when those guys walk in the room, it's a different level of human.
Derek can hit too. He's got hands. He can box.
He's got a little bit of a wrestling background, too.
He’s a freak athlete. He’s a defensive lineman. He said it before on podcasts and I have known it from being in the gym with them. They move differently. Offensive guys stay put. Defensive guys have to be mobile and they are active with arms and everything. They are athletes.
Offensive guys stay put; defensive guys have to be mobile. They're active with arms and everything; they're athletes.
That would be scary.
I wouldn't want to see him. I'd fight professionally. I wouldn't want to stand across from him.
I would pay a lot of money to see that. Whatever the pay-per-view cost is, ringside seat, I'm going.
Bare Knuckles is reading. He sent me that. I was like, “He's bored now. He's ready to get in.” Going back to my contract, oddly enough, I did another one-fight deal with them. My first fight was one fight.
We don't have to get into crazy details or anything.
I'm trying to think how to word it. The first one was one fight. One, because they offered me three. The money wasn't what I wanted. They told me the first one was a trial. In the multiple-fight contract they offered me the first time, the money stayed the same. I'm thinking if I get a highlight knockout or something, it goes 1 or 2 ways.
I bet on myself. It goes 1 or 2 ways. I could have signed the three and been guaranteed. I was like, “If I lose, they could drop the money. They could say, ‘We are out.’” I bet on myself and I was like, “If I get what I want, then I'm going to ask for a lot more money.” One of their problems is they have grown so fast, so their communication is not the best. I didn't hear from them after that fight for a while and I was I thought they'd be pumped like this and that. I thought they come at me with a contract right away. I didn't hear from them.
It's a new organization. They are probably figuring it out a little bit too.
They are traveling all over the place. They work with a small crew, probably similar to what you are used to. It’s the same crew band. Travel like a band manager. You are organizing all these cities.
Those rock and rollers go in and you hire local laborers. It depends on how big the production is. I was out with The Killers for a long time and we were a super small crew. It was probably 25 guys and we went all over the world during the heyday of it, and then you rely on local labor that's provided. You are just giving them direction. You will have 100 dudes to put the show together, but it's 20 guys giving those 100 people directions.
It's different in every city too.
That's essentially what they are doing because they use some local people. I didn't hear from them for a bit. I had some boxing offers and some other offers come up that I was considering. They announced the Denver card and we ended up talking. They are like, “Do you want to do it again?” I'm like, “Yeah.” I told you that right after, but it's been a minute like, “Where have you been?” It felt like a bitter ex-girlfriend a little. We negotiated a bit. I don't use management anymore and do it myself. I have just done it a while and managers are scumbags for the most part in this sport. They always got their hand out.
It seems like that in most industries. We have had a couple of people try to come in on the show side. Fit Soda is good. Shout-out.
It's hydrating. It's got electrolytes.
It's not bad for you.
There's no sugar or coloring.
There's a guy curling on here and running.
You want to look jacked like that.
It's got some branch-chain amino acids too.
Those are good for recovery, and then electrolytes in it. It's a hydrating soda with zero calories and zero sugar. We ended up negotiating for a bit on this one and got it done. It's still a one-fight deal. They are like, “Let's get this fight done,” because we didn't come to an agreement until a few weeks ago.
I got to change one of my contracts. I'm supposed to be going out on a show, but I'm going to do everything I can to show up a couple of days late so I can come check this out. I'm all about it.
This card is sick. It's going to be rad. Even if I wasn't fighting on this, I'd go. I want to see how Rothwell does in Bare Knuckle. Perry is a psycho. He's going to make it fun either way. Also, Mendes and Alvarez. There are a bunch of good fights.
I don't have my glasses on, but that Ferea is a savage. I was watching some of her highlights and that's going to be a good fight too. This is awesome. I'm pumped to see this.
The best thing about Bare Knuckle is they are quick-paced. It's five 2-minute rounds, but most of them don't go that long. It's exciting. It's quick. I wasn't sure if I would. I liked that they start you in the center right there because it forces you. You are pretty much in engagement distance.
It pretty much follows boxing rules. Boxers start in the corners, don't they? I didn't even realize that because I haven't watched enough of this.
When you start opposite corners, if one guy is quicker on his feet and everything, it gives you time to dance around and fill it out. They start you 3 or 4 feet apart, so with one step, I could hit you. That's your choice if you want to right when they say, “Knuckle up.” You could choose to back up and out, but you also don't want to get caught on your back foot because one guy might be coming straight in. It's exciting.
If one guy is quicker on his feet and everything and gives you time to dance around, feel it out.
This is straight-up boxing though. There are no kicks and takedowns.
The only difference between boxing and this is they allow you to clench the head, so you can hold the head and throw bar style. In boxing, you can't do that. As long as you have one hand and you are active with the other, they will let you. If you are strong enough to hold onto somebody's head and hit twenty punches, they will let it keep going. In boxing, you try to do that once and they will grab that ear.
You're screwed. It's different because this is strictly a standup. You don't have to worry about takedowns, but then also, you have no glove element. How different is this from mixed martial arts, traditional boxing, or anything like that? How hard was the transition? I'm sure there are a ton of different techniques that goes into it.
It's a little different. I haven't talked to a bunch of guys that have done it beforehand. I train at Genesis Training Academy in Arvada here. My coach, Jake Ramos, has been in boxing for a long time in MMA. He used to coach Gaethje, a lot of studs, and professional boxers as well. He's won world titles and stuff in boxing. He started looking at this. The guy down at the bottom, Girtz, is from my team too. So is Josh Copeland who's next to me or my father. All three of us were on the last one.
There are some mountain men right there.
He's a big dude. All three of us were on the last card and it was all of our first one. Jake started looking at it. We made some adjustments that weren't the same as a boxing glove, not the same as an MMA glove, and having all the tape. I did have to learn how to throw my punches a little bit differently. When you throw your cross with a glove on, you don't have to worry about a ton of rotation. With MMA, your hand's all taped up, then you have the glove and it's compact. With a boxing glove, it's even more.
It's something to grip onto too. They tear a little piece of foam, a roll in there, or something of some sort.
The way they are taped, there will be a little bit but it protects your hand. The tape has to be two fingers down from the knuckles, everything. It's basically to hold your wrist. I started realizing when I took my boxing gloves and stuff off and I was hitting mitts, a lot of my hooks and stuff were hitting these front knuckles. I started having to bend my wrist a little bit, which had to change how my elbow was just to make sure you don't break your hand. It’s the same with throwing across.
Now I focus on rotating my thumb overly or exaggerated. If I think here the whole time, most likely, I might hit here. If I exaggerate here, I'm probably going to hit it here. It's like throwing head kicks. I will aim for people's necks because then I will most likely hit them in the head. If I aim for your head, it might go over. There were some little adjustments but it's way different from MMA. In boxing, I do straight boxing training for this other than some of the boxers.
That's got to be a relief a little bit in the training aspect. Some of the most fun that I have and some of the best workouts that I get are when I'm hitting mitts or something like Muay Thai and I'm doing it at a very low level.
It's simplified it a lot.
I enjoy that type of training.
I was talking about this because when I say simplified, I still get beat up by guys’ boxing and everything. I'm not saying it's easier. When I go in there and then I have to focus on, you have two hands that you could hit me with. It simplifies. It doesn't make it easier because the craftier you get, it's more technical. You got to hide it a bit more with your offense and defense.
Muay Thai is simplified. I still get beat up by guys boxing and everything; I'm not saying it's easier, but when I go in there, I can focus on your two hands that you could hit me with, so it simplifies it.
At least I only have to focus on those. With MMA, I might duck a punch, get kicked, kneed, elbowed, or taken down, so it's not easier. Now, I go in and I focus on like, “These are the only two weapons you have at least. You don't have twelve.” Stuff is not coming over here and I'm wondering if you will be hit up right there.
You might not end up in a rear naked choke.
If you have ever done MMA, it feels like there are not enough hours in the day. You got to do boxing, Muay Thai, jiu-jitsu, wrestling, Strength and Conditioning, and all these things, and you don't want to lack one. You are trying to get them all in, but you can only work out so many times in a day. There are times when a lot of us talk. At the end of the week, we are like, “There are not enough hours in the week.” Even if I wanted to try something new, when would I fit that in?
You are cross-training in five different disciplines if you think about it.
You have to put it all together because then, we also spar MMA in 1 day or 2 days. That's with all of it together, but then you work on the individual skills.
I have never thought about it that way.
It's like stimulation overload almost. You then take wrestling and you might go to a college and wrestle. They don't wrestle on walls. Wall wrestling or cage wrestling is a whole other thing. It's overwhelming. There are so many things to focus on. For boxing, during the week, I do Strength and Conditioning. I hit mitts and I spar. I do cardio on my own and lift on my own a little bit, depending on the day, but it's simplified, and a lot more compact. It doesn't feel like, “I don't have enough time to do this.” The training is easier on your body. Nobody's trying to choke me.
I still go to jiu-jitsu and I'm doing it at a very low level. Shout-out to John Bacon. I'm sure you are reading this. The dude I'm going in and rolling against is bigger than I am. Occasionally, you will get caught and you are like, “Fuck.” You leave the next day and your neck is tweaked. It’s the little shit like that.
You could be arm barred, this, or that. When I train other than Strength and Conditioning stuff, I'm sore from the waist up. With MMA, kickboxing, and stuff, when you get kicked in your legs and then, in Strength and Conditioning, they are like, “We are doing squats today.” You are like, “My leg is purple,” so waist up. Shoulders get sore and burned out. I do a lot of neck exercises. Part of my neck exercises is still doing jiu-jitsu. I realize when I go and do neck exercises with the boxers, they are struggling. We will hang our heads off the ring and that stuff. I can do that all day.
Just from the training in jiu-jitsu?
Yeah. They are not used to people grabbing their necks and stuff.
It's constantly in jiu-jitsu. Somebody's got a hold of you. It could even be your gi.
Growing up wrestling, people are snapping your head down.
That head pressure is natural.
Guys that have boxed their whole life are not used to people doing any of this. When we were doing neck exercises the first time, my coach was like, “One minute of this exercise.” I was talking to him the whole time doing it and other guys were stopping. They are not used to people hanging 200 pounds off their necks. It's fun. I like honing in the skill of just boxing right now. I will do jiu-jitsu once, maybe twice a week. I will cut it back as we are getting closer, but I still love it. Plus, it's cardio. I look at it as body conditioning. Where do you do jiu-jitsu at?
Right up the street here at Brazilian Top Team. We have had Dave Roberts on the show before. He's an old UFC vet from way back when like UFC 10. I don't know if he co-owned a gym with Rampage for a little while. I used to coach in the corner with Rampage stuff back in the day, back in his prime, but now he's doing his own thing. They have one here in Evergreen and then one in Conifer and it's cool.
He's a fucking great guy. I hit him up and I was like, “This is only time that I can find,” because typically we are doing episodes at night or I'm on the road and nobody was doing a lunch class up here or anything like that. I was trying to find a spot up here that would do a lunch roll. I hit him up and he opened it up. Now all of a sudden, it's turned into this whole thing. A lot of people up here work remotely. It's all dads and shit. There are no pros coming in there for sure, but Dave is an awesome coach and it's a good group of people in there.
I go to Katharo Training Center, which is on Kipling and 470 near Chatfield. If you guys ever want, there's a lunchtime class at noon and we get people from all different gyms. The coach loves cross-training. There are other gyms from Parker and stuff that will bring ten people at a time. They jump in and it's fun.
I love the lunch rolls because a lot of the work that I do outside the show is on the East Coast, so I'm up early. I can't go in. They have a 6:00 AM too that I used to love going to, but I can't make it now. I'm too busy with life. I can take a lunch break for an hour and go try to choke somebody or get choked, 1 of the 2.
They have a 6:00 AM class at Katharo that I go to sometimes. It's a 30 to 40-minute drive for me.
This is like five minutes. I can make them like, “It's 11:55. I got to end this conference call.”
It's good as long as you keep doing something.
It's all about that. For me, it’s the cardio that I get from rolling. The drilling is awesome, but the actual roll is why I'm there for the last ten minutes of class, honestly. The cardio that I get out of that is unmatched for me because I don't push myself hard enough. I have been with some personal goals and I need to go down and talk to Eric to achieve some of these goals.
As long as you just keep doing something, it's all about that.
Jump in with me. I got a small group. We do Monday and Wednesday at 7:00 AM.
Down at Landow?
Yeah.
I might do that.
What's great for me and why I love Katharo too is, as I said earlier, I'm ADD. I have a hard time paying attention. I didn't do great in school. I was distracted by a lot of different things. The way classes are structured there is we roll for the first half an hour and then my coach teaches. You are tired. I get all my energy out and then I can pay attention better.
The first time I ever went down there, I was like, “This is cool.” I'm sweating and I'm tired. I never understood jiu-jitsu. I have trained at some real traditional gyms, non-traditional. You warm up for 15 to 20 minutes and then they teach for an hour. I'm like, “What do I warm up for?” Now, we are doing walkthrough moves. At the end of that, they are like, “Let's roll.” Maybe I'm old or beat up, but I'm like, “Now, I'm stiff because I have been doing the moves, but not hard.” We did this warmup that gets your lungs tired and then I sat there and watched you teach.
I understand that. It depends on my partner too, because back to John Bacon. He's maybe 280. He used to be a college lineman and stuff. He's a big dude. If I'm working off my back and we are working on scissor sweeps to sweep them, I'm sweating a little bit. I'm moving a lot of man.
How long have you been doing it?
The show got so busy. COVID shut it down so I was doing it prior to COVID. It’s the same thing. Kids got me into it. That's one of the things I have told my daughters. If they want to go on a date, they need to be purple belts before all that.
You better make sure you are above a purple belt. That way, he's not like, “I'm going to fuck you up too.” I will have her home when I want.
They were going to some bullshit Taekwondo place where it was like, every time I turned around, they wanted $60 for a belt. I'm looking at these black belt kids that are 12 or 11 years old. They couldn't fight their way out of a fucking paper bag. I'm sorry. I'm not saying that all Taekwondo is like that. I'm sure that there are some excellent gyms. I lived in Texas for a year and where my son went there, you would have thought fucking Chuck Norris was teaching him. This dude was serious and didn't fuck around. My son was little. He was 2 or 3 years old and it was very much a traditional martial arts type of school, but some of these places are fucking rockets.
I don't believe in that stuff. I'm using this as an example. I don't own Katharo or anything, but one thing that's cool about them is when you sign up, there is an initiation fee. We get you set up in the system and everything, but we will never charge you again. I say we but I don't own it. What that includes is literally over the years, every time you get promoted, we buy your belt or they buy your belt. That's given to you. There are no charges and testing fees. You earned it and it's a gym expense. When I got my black belt, he gave me a custom black belt. My name's embroidered on it and everything. He paid for that. He gave me a hatchet at Half Face Blades.
I got so much to talk to you about that. This is the tip of the iceberg.
I got nothing now. Those are gym expenses and that shows that they care. I don't want to hate on all of them, but there is a ton of martial arts gyms that it's a money industry. It's a burn and turn.
Especially with kids.
It is. It's the same for us. Kids progress way faster than adults. At my gym, your kids' belt is our expense or the gym's expense, which is cool. I appreciate that. Even though I don't have kids, I appreciate that because you already pay a membership.
There are tons of martial arts gyms, which is a money industry. It's a burn-and-turn, especially with kids. And kids progress way faster than adults.
You feel like you are getting nickel-and-dimed as a parent. “We need an extra $20 for this.” For football, all these other sports organizations, or soccer, it's like, “This is what it costs,” and then that's for the season, so you know what you are getting into. It wasn't even so much about the nickel-and-dime. If my kid legitimately earned a belt, I'm okay with paying for that $60 or whatever you charge, but I want to know that he legitimately earned it.
I feel like with jiu-jitsu and especially if they are affiliated with somebody like Brazilian Top Team, American Top Team, or an affiliated school sometimes, there's a structure to it. If somebody's reading this that's never even heard of jiu-jitsu, which is pretty uncommon, I still think that there's a good majority of people that haven't stepped foot into a jiu-jitsu school of any sort. It's a commitment. You are not just getting belts. There are five different belts that you can go through, and to become a black belt, you are looking at probably a minimum of eight years at the earliest if you are somebody that trains fucking every day.
Eight years, you'd still have to be a phenom.
That's the fastest you'd probably get. How long did it take you to be a black belt?
Sixteen. I could be a doctor. I was a brown belt for seven years. Coaches come in and out. I never switched gyms, but different coaches would come in. They would leave, they'd fall out, and this and that. Each time you get a new coach, they have a different system. It meant a ton to me when I got mine. My coach is Steve Hordinski. After this, I'd love to talk to you and get him on here.
I never switched gyms, but different coaches would come in, leave, fall out, this and that. Each time you get a new coach, they have a different system, so it meant a ton to me when I got my belt.
He was in the Navy and everything. He's been doing jiu-jitsu. He's got some back-in-the-gym battle days. He would love to come down here. He’s a great dude. It meant a lot for me to get it from him because he's legit. I want to say he's a third-degree black belt under. We are under Kahiki who was Hickson's first black belt. With jiu-jitsu, he's a young guy too. It's about lineage too.
He didn't give me a black belt based on performance and everything else. One thing I had to do, and I'm not going to lie if I'm being dead honest. I was like, “Are you serious?” He's like, “I want to black belt you, but part of my requirement.” He follows Hickson's requirements. He's like, “You have to know the Gracie self-defense system.
I spent six months going on Sunday and training with him and another group of brown belts to learn it. I tried to cop out. At first, I was like, “I have been fighting the best in the world for seventeen years. Does that count for self-defense?” He's like, “It's not for you, so could teach other people.” A lot of people have the misconception about being a black belt too. It's a give-and-take.
There are black belts out there that know a ton and they are older or whatnot. Like a guy coming off a D-1 college can walk into the gym and maybe hold you down. You can't submit them and everything and you are 50 years old. Can you teach the moves? Can you instruct people? I learned that along the way. That's more of what a black belt is. When you are a black belt, you shouldn't be getting run over by the average person at all. You got to have some skill. I trained with 70-year-olds when I was a blue belt. I'm like, “They are black belts but they can't get in the way. They are fine, but he's 70.”
It's the same. Not to say that anybody's inferior. There are guys that I roll against that are 120 pounds. It's not always big guys. You are not always match up, and I love that too. Sometimes it's a female. There's a little bit of give and take there. I'm not going to go 100% on somebody. I'm going to feel it out, but if I get caught in a bad position, I'm going to go 100%, and I have.
Going back to some of the mutual friends that we have and from the SEAL community, we were talking before the show started. With those guys and some of those special operators, I have learned that you never judge a book by its cover. Especially nowadays like going into a bar, you don't know who fucking trains at a Gracie school or 10th Planet, you might get caught really quick and I have had little guys catch me at jiu-jitsu.
Check those ears quickly. If you see somebody with a cauliflower at a bar, probably stop, and don't do anything. It's the same thing with fighting. I have trained with world champions. I have trained with UFC champions, boxing champions, and everything, and they don't win every round. If they did, they are at the wrong spot, but there are people that want to build themselves off that and be like, “Why?”
They're testing you when you are in the gym.
If you are doing jiu-jitsu, there are people that want to go tell everybody like, “He's in the UFC but I submitted him.”
There's a difference between training and stepping into that octagon. I can't speak for it, but I would imagine there's a big difference between training and fucking go time. Going into jiu-jitsu, it always starts with a warm-up, and then we do some pretty rigorous drilling. The coaches are adamant that you keep moving. “What are you guys fucking doing? We are not here to hang out," type of thing, which I love. Shout-out to Dave.
At the end of it, you start and you are like, “Let's start 50%. Don't kill each other.” You are not trying to hurt your training partners. That's part of it. Every once in a while, it gets turned up to 100% or 1/10. It's going to happen. It's competitive, but for the most part, it's a different vibe in a gym especially when you are just training.
For Chris Weidman's training camps, I would go out to Long Island, stay with him, and train because I'm left-handed or I fight left-handed. I'm right-handed but I fight southpaw.
That is crazy. That was something I wanted to ask you about.
He fought Anderson and Machida. The list goes on. They are southpaws like Rockhold. Every time he fought a lefty, he'd bring me out there. We'd spar. We used to go to Matt Serra's gym. Shout-out to Matt Serra. I love that guy.
I love that guy too. I don’t know him personally but his lore.
Do you want to talk about a gym full of killers? They're absolute murderers at jiu-jitsu. You walk in and there are old-looking dudes that are old heavier sets, everything. The next thing you know they are laying on their back, pulling their foot in front of your face while you are on top and you are like, “How are you this flexible?”
Like Joey Diaz.
Shout-out to him too. I love that guy.
I love Joey too. I caught you on this. I love that.
We sent him Fit Soda and stuff all the time. I have known him for a bit. It's the most deceiving and humbling thing ever. I'm fighting in the UFC and fighting top-level guys, everything. I remember the first time I went to Serra's gym. Weidman and I were leaving. We’re getting in his car and he was like, “How did you do it?” I was like, “I got fucking murdered by everybody like submitted.”
He's like, “They are good here. Don't worry about it. Think about it. All these guys are doing jiu-jitsu all day long. Most of those guys are Wall Street guys. They go to Enzo's in the morning. Serra’s at night. They work during the day but they do jiu-jitsu in the morning and night.” I even asked the guy there. I'm like, “What belts are you?” He's, “I'm a black belt.” I was like, “No shit. How long have you been doing jiu-jitsu?” He's like, “I started in ’93.” They wiped the floor with me.
It's crazy because me traveling around a little bit for what I do, I try to do some drop-ins so I can stay fresh. If I'm gone for three weeks, it's like you might as well fucking start over again.
I train everywhere I go.
Dropping into some of these different gyms, you will see different levels. I have dropped into some gyms before and I have nothing against anybody. Everybody's different, but I'm rolling against some brown belts or purple belts and I'm schooling them and I'm a white belt, and they accuse me of sandbagging almost. “How are you still a white belt?”
You are like, “I didn't belt myself.”
I have gone into some other spots where the white belts are fucking murderers.
People ask me these things all the time because I have met guys in the gym that have never competed. Going back to the training with world champions and stuff. Weidman has people. I'm sure Khabib has people. Stipe well. He has people that you have never heard of that will give him the roughest rounds or it's like a give-and-take. They don't win every round and you are not meant to. The fact is being able to put it together that night and in front of people is a whole different league.
I can't imagine the nerves going into it and the walkout.
You were talking about operators and stuff. It's like you are a professional shooter at the range, but can you do it when somebody's shooting at you?
A hundred percent. That's where I was going.
If you take competition shooters and be like, “Have you ever been shot at?” “No, but I'm a pretty good shot.”
Same with bow hunting. You can stand on polished concrete and throw arrows.
Pressure breaks everything. Pressure makes diamonds. It will break everything. It's who can deal with that? People get a false sense of security. It's the same with people that do jiu-jitsu and they are like, “I'm the baddest dude ever.” Then you run into somebody like, “I'm a black belt in jiu-jitsu but I have kicked boxed with the best in the world. I fought MMA. What are you going to do if you can't submit me and we get in a bar fight?”
Pressure breaks everything. Pressure makes diamonds. It's about who can deal with that.
You are walking around thinking because you do jiu-jitsu and you are good at it that you are the best. You might be better at jiu-jitsu, but can you get me there? Am I good enough to defend all your stuff and then still elbow you and this and that? It's a chess match. When people have that false sense of security. Stipe is a good friend of mine. He was considered the baddest man on the planet. He’s still one of them.
He’s about to fight Jon Jones again.
You will never see him walk around town like that. You won't see him pick fights with people. You won't see him puff his chest.
That's what I found about a lot of you guys that I have had in and stuff that are at that top level of MMA fighters and stuff. I enjoy hanging out with you guys more than anybody in operators and stuff like that. What I have based my guest list around is people that aren't going to bullshit me. I love that. There's no bullshit. You guys are some of the most laid-back fun people to be around. I'm not saying that you could fucking turn it on.
Another reason I go to jiu-jitsu is I get that same humbleness. I feel like a fucking piece of shit every time I leave there. I'm like, “I suck so bad at this.” I got worked by so-and-so. It's any of your outside problems. It happened to me here. I had some high school kids fucking tear around me and flipping me off and shit. I was like, “I want to get out of the car a bit.” Luckily, I went to jiu-jitsu that day.
Tons of people would disagree, but everybody should do some sport like that. It’s very humbling. You learn a ton of things that translate to real life. You learn hard work. You learn that you are not going to break. Nowadays, people think we are made out of glass. Even with parenting, humans are resilient. I get it. You want to protect your kids. You want to make sure they have the best and everything, but you are not exactly protecting them by not letting them experience some hardships and stuff because they grow off of that. We did. I'm not a parent, but I could see you want to shelter them from everything.
It's a hard balance, especially in this world. I could think back to how I grew up a little bit. It was the school of hard knocks like fucking sack up. You got to go back to that. It's also how you are raised. I was abused as a kid too. Not sexually, thank God, but I was hit. I got knocked the fuck out. There was domestic violence in my house and stuff like that. I don't ever want that to be around my kids.
I'm not saying take it all but that also made me a protector and a person that wanted to learn how to fight, protect myself, and protect my family more than anything, not even myself. That was the main reason why I wrestled and that's why I hit hard in football. It was like, “I want to learn how to knock somebody the fuck out in case I had to,” and I did have to use it at home.
That's this fucking sad part when you went home, I had to use some of that. I wanted to get bigger, faster, and stronger so I could protect my mom. That's fucked up. That's not a good way to grow up. Now that my kids are growing up with two parents, we keep any violence. There might be an argument here or there. That shit's going to happen. Outside of that, there's no violence even threats around. They are growing up in the perfect environment and we do everything that we can to support them in what they want to do.
There's also a balance of like, “Now you need to do this.” That's why I'm pursuing getting my kid back into hunting. There's such a huge value in the adversity that you face in the wilderness and big game hunting. If you are backcountry bow hunting, I'm not talking about sitting around the campfire drinking beer. That's fucking great too. There are some life lessons there too. There's a big difference.
There's such a huge value in the adversity that you face in the wilderness with big game hunting.
If you are going after the animals, trying to call them in, you are covered in their own piss because you are spraying it on yourself because you bought it at the store. You are hiking. That stuff is in your eyes. You are tired. You are up before the sun gets up. You are coming back to camp before the sun gets down and then, you got to get up the next day and do it all over again if you want to have success. The work then begins when you do accomplish your goal then you are like, “Holy shit. Here we go.”
You get that high and then you are like, “Now we got to pack it out.”
It's a whole other level. There's some adversity that comes with that. It also puts an appreciation on life in general. It could be here one minute and gone the next. Especially when you see something that's 600 pounds that's majestic and sounds like a fucking dinosaur and has antlers growing out of its head. There’s something about that.
It's a primitive thing but it also gives you an appreciation for life. I don't know any hunters that are like, “I want to kill everything.” You are excited when you get a kill, but you are not like, “I want to slaughter things.” You are pumped. Most hunters, I like to think at least, are like, “I don't hunt things that I won't eat.” You get more appreciation because you had to put in the work for it. You didn't go to the grocery store and buy it. Aside from that, that animal didn't grow up on a farm. Take chickens for example. Not that I go hunt chickens or cows. You like beef. I like elk. Those cows live in pens. They don't live an actual life.
When people shit on hunting unless you are completely vegan, don't you dare have leather in your car and all these other things that I can list off that you probably have, your shoes, and everything. You better be wearing TOMS and all this before you come at me. The animal that I killed lived wildlife like a better life, didn't know what happened most likely or if it wasn't cleaned, it was quick. It didn't live in a pen. It wasn't miserable and being shot with antibiotics, and all these other things. I don't think people think that through. They are like, “Hunting is bad. I go to the store and buy it.” You are eating an inbred penned-up animal.
They are shot full of hormones. There are options to buy beef and stuff in some other routes. I don't want to shit on the industry because that industry does get shit on a lot. In the huge level of factory farming, there's only one way to feed all the fucking people we have here. It's going to be based on how much you go about sourcing your food, but people are coming back to that. Sourcing your own food, whether it's through a third party or not, is super fucking important.
The biggest way to vote is with your dollar. If you are against factory farming, don't walk into the big chain grocery store and go buy the fucking spray-painted steak that's bright red and beet juice, and whatever other chemicals that they have to keep it on the shelf as long as they possibly can. Go to some of these third parties that have a ranch-to-doorstep mentality that will ship it to you or something like that like Colorado Craft Beef. There are all kinds of these great people out there that are still doing the agricultural work in a humane way as possible.
The biggest way to vote is with your dollar. If you're against factory farming, don't walk into the big chain grocery store and buy the spray-painted steak that's bright red with beet juice or whatever chemicals they have to keep it on the shelf as long as they possibly can.
Let's put it in perspective. If you want to source your own meat firsthand, there are two ways to do it. It's either raise a cow or a pet, and then kill it, or go out and hunt if you are going to eat meat. For me, the hunting aspect, that's the main reason I do it. I'm not out chasing 380-class bulls. If there's one that walks in front of me during hunting season, sure shit it's getting an arrow on it if I'm within the legal limit.
That's another point to bring up too. It's misconstrued by non-hunters that people are out there killing these animals and not eating them or utilizing most of the parts. They think it's all about holding up the head and taking that photo or having it mounted on your wall. Some guys choose to do that. Some guys don't.
It is against the law in the state of Colorado and many other states that if you shoot an animal or during hunting season, part of your license requirement is you have to utilize that meat. You can't dispose of it. You can't throw it away. You have to take it home to consume. You have to either have it processed or process it yourself. You can't leave it out there in the forest and cut the head off and take the trophy out. You are required to take almost the entire animal out like the heavy shit, all the meat.
Nor do I know any personally or have ever heard of anybody that knows of anybody that does that. It’s just like, “I killed it.” A lot of people also don't realize that hunting pays for more conservation than anybody else more than PETA and any of that shit. You can get down a rabbit hole on PETA too. They are not just like a lot of other things in the world. They are not exactly what they say. Hunting tags and all of that pays for conservation. It pays for the forestation.
It pays for much more than benefiting hunters. It benefits more people outside of hunting than actual hunters.
The world's gone a little crazy. We were talking about protecting the kids and everything and I don't even want to turn this a bad way. If you take the term toxic masculinity, that's gone around forever.
We get nailed with it all the time. I do personally and people fucking hate me.
We are lacking it.
I feel it's being stifled. I'm getting hit with all these messages sometimes. I feel bad about talking about certain things and I shouldn't feel that fucking way. Fuck all of you.
I will talk about that. You hit me up. We are lacking masculinity because nowadays, you got all these kids. I'm not saying that everybody has to be me, fight, and do this. There are a ton of people. This is what gives the common misconception. There's a bunch of meatheads out there that are douchebags that talk about like, “I'm an alpha,” this and that, and masculine, and they are not the ones. Masculinity means a whole another thing. It's being able to provide, protect, take care of, be humble, and a lot of other things. We are lacking a lot of that and that's through fathers and children. There are so many ways you could go with this.
It's super important. Tim Kennedy got a program going right now. I don't know if you are familiar with him. I don't know him personally, but I know that they have started a program that's specifically about the world that we live in now. Whether you are a deadbeat dad or not, dads aren't around. You are a provider still.
Even though women are working, now there are not two parents in the home. In 90% of homes, the dad is absent way more than the mom is, no matter what their careers are. That's the pecking order. Growing up without a dad and a single mom, I learned to be a man, toxic masculinity, how to be a provider, or whatever you want to fucking call it was from some excellent father figures even though they weren't my dad. I had my grandfather and uncles that were awesome.
My youngest uncle and I are only ten years apart. It's almost having an older sibling. He's still a fucking badass. Without some influence there, you are on your own. If you are growing up at this age, then you might as well have TikTok or Instagram raise you. We know how poisonous that is. That's not good for anybody even adults. Imagine what it does to a kid's brain.
Algorithm raises kids now. It’s poisonous. It’s not good for anybody, even adults.
Do you know who Alan Belcher is?
I don't. Enlighten me.
He was a UFC fighter. He's the Bare Knuckle Heavyweight Champion now. He's a stud of the UFC Fighter. He fought Bisping. He had a bunch of big fights. I had him on my show and he said one of the coolest things ever. He was like, “People don't realize that if you are not parenting, the algorithm is raising your children now. I don't restrict them and stuff but I don't let them be on it all the time. If I'm absent as a father, my kids will watch TikTok, Instagram, and everything. The more that they look at those, the algorithm catches on for all of us. The algorithm will raise your children.” I never thought about it that way, but it was a cool saying. I wanted to shout that out.
That's awesome and that's basically Tim Kennedy's philosophy. He's starting a men's group to encourage young dads because there are a ton of people that are out there that are new to having kids. They are trying to figure it out. They have the social interaction that they got to keep up with now. They have their jobs. They are always connected to some phone or something, whether it's email or whatever.
There are so many distractions in life. You can watch whatever you want on demand. You can go on YouTube. I can go back and watch your fights on Fight Pass. You can spend as much time on one subject, which is super awesome in some facets, but there are so many distractions that I feel these households are living separate lives. They are all locked into their own devices, whether it's a phone or a tablet, and that's awesome.
I like to listen to audiobooks and podcasts. I don't watch TV. These are some of the things that they are implementing and this is something I have been doing for a while in my home. If we are all home and going to eat dinner, even if it's 2 or 3 of us, we are all going in different directions. My philosophy is to keep your kids busy in some sport. Help them pursue their stuff. If we are at home and we are going to eat dinner, let's not do it in front of the TV. Let's eat dinner, number one.
You don't realize how much you are consuming when you are sitting there. It's dopamine hit after dopamine hit when you are sitting there. You are going to have 2 or 3 plates if you are waiting to watch Chris Camozzi fight on the next tough challenge or whatever it is. Take the time and then also shelf on the phone. I put it on do not disturb and put it on top of the refrigerator so I physically have to go get it to check it. If the world's blown up, it's cool now that with technology you can set certain people to ring through, some of those do not disturb things.
When you and I were going back and forth about doing this, it took me so long sometimes to get back to you. Sometimes I'm on my phone or computer at home, but once I'm done, I put it on and do not disturb it. I put it face down on the charger in my room. It's not even near me. I'm not sitting there. Even if my girlfriend and I are watching a movie and she goes to the bathroom, I'm not on my phone.
My phone is not even near me. I decide on a point in the day when I'm done. There might be a time I take the dog out and the dog is running around the park and I look at my phone. I have started doing this in 2022, more separation time because I used to sleep with it next to me, this and that. I love the do not disturb thing and sometimes I forget to turn it back on. I'm like, “I missed ten calls,” and I'm at work.
As much as you are hard on yourself about it, you are very responsive. The communication has been great. For some of the top-level athletes that I deal with and some of these other people, it's like hit or miss. I have had full staff here and everything like ready to do a show and they are like, “I'm sorry I can't make it.”
Before the hate messages come in, I want to rephrase. Going back to the masculinity thing, this gets missed because there's become a time now where everybody thinks masculinity is tough, hunt, shoot, and do all this. You can be an engineer or a computer guy, but still be masculine by having morals, integrity, and stuff like that. I'm not saying that you have to be lifting weights and doing this and that. Is that better for you working out? Yeah. Some people are not genetically gifted. I have met people that others would call a computer nerds, but you can still be masculine in your own way. I'm not saying you have to be a meathead and this and that.
There was a time when everybody thought masculinity was being tough and hunting, shooting, and doing all these things. You can be an engineer or a computer guy and still be masculine just by having morals like integrity and stuff like that.
Everything that I have learned about that, which is funny is my dad wasn't around growing up. Everything I learned about being a man was from my mom. People are always surprised to hear that. I didn't grow up with the dad that was at football games like, “Fuck him up. Smash him.” My mom is the one that taught me like, “If you see a woman walking up to a door, open that door. If you are walking in and a woman is behind you, hold it,” and chivalrous things.
Be a gentleman. That's one thing that my mom taught me too.
My mom was also the one that would whoop my ass as a kid too like a wooden spoon. Even to this day, it was ingrained in me forever. Don't ever raise your voice. Don't hit women. It wasn't from seeing my parents do it. My mom was like, “If you ever do it, I will kill you.” My mom will still tell me that now. She knows I fight some of the toughest guys in the world and my mom's like, “If anything like that ever happened, you know I would fuck you up.”
I'm so fortunate with the background that I grew up in and seeing all that abuse against my mom. Luckily, it was my stepdads that were doing it which is even more fucked up, so there was that disconnection. Also, I had great influences like grandfathers and uncles that didn't stand for that shit and it was like, “You respect a woman.” You should not worship them, but you should treat them at a higher level. You should have a higher respect for them and yourself.
I'm not always the best at verbalizing, but part of a masculinity thing is also standing up for yourself. That doesn't mean physically. It’s always like maybe your boss rides you all the time or maybe it's not your boss. People walk all over you. There's a time and it doesn't have to be in a loud way or anything, but you say no.
People respect people that respect themselves and stand up for themselves and a lot of that is getting lost. Everybody falls into the group. Nowadays, there's a narrative everybody falls in. Nobody ever questions. Nobody ever says, “I don't agree with that,” because that puts you as an outlier. Being able to stand up for what you believe in is, whether you are a woman or not, a masculine thing. I'm digging the hole here. I'm all pro-women like you being a CEO is everything.
My girl is a savage. I learned so much from her. She's a business savage. She's also super intelligent. I root her in everything. I run companies. Do this and do that. Women don't have to be masculine, but it's a self-respect thing too that society is losing. Everybody is so quick to agree and be like, “I don't want to stand out.” That is almost more what we are missing than anything. We need people to stand up.
Society is losing its self-respect. Everybody is so quick to agree and be like, "I don't want to stand out." That is almost more of what we're missing than anything else. We need people to stand up for what's right.
It's like people are walking on eggshells. That's one thing I love about this show and having guys like you and/or females whatever. Being able to have a real conversation where there are no distractions, 1, and 2, to genuinely get out what you feel and have a platform to do it on.
I haven't talked to a lot about this. It's just integrity too. We are losing integrity as individuals which are making the group fall in line. Have some integrity. If you disagree or you question something, question it. Everything in science has literally built-up questions.
You don't have to be right.
If you look at the scientific method, the scientific method is questioning until it can be completely proven and it can't be questioned. That's when it becomes a fact. People don't want to question things anymore because they don't want to stand out. They don't want the ridicule. You should ask questions.
If I'm a boss or when I coach people at the gym and stuff, I don't get mad if you question what I'm showing. I prefer it because it means you are paying attention and you are thinking outside the box. I'm not always right. I have had students ask me a question and be like, “You are right. That would work.” I have been doing this for several years and I change it after that. Just because I learned it away and then I teach it that way, it doesn't have to continue that way. There's always a new way.
It's being receptive to that too as a leader. It’s not my way or the highway type of mentality. That's super important. That's part of being a good leader whether you are in your household or not. I know we are going super deep here, but it is actually listening. That's what's made me a good host. When I first started this, I fucking suck so badly. Don't go read episode one. Please do not.
Go read for the people that I have had on but don't critique me because I was so bad at interrupting, rambling, and having to fill that air. It's okay to have a silent moment on the mic. I still find myself having trouble with that. Listening to people is part of being a good leader or a good host. Genuinely listen. That's all you got to fucking do. It's not that hard.
Listening to people is part of being a good leader, or a good host, or whatever. Just genuinely listen. That's all you've got to do.
That's a reason why I like Joe Rogan's podcast and I know that there are plenty of people that hate him and everything. The one thing that he's great at is interviewing because if he doesn't agree and he's sitting here in an intimate situation, face-to-face. He has grilled people before. Is he always right? No, but how many people in our media ask real questions anymore?
They are all scripted-fed questions and he will never be perfect. I'm not saying that he's the end-all say-all, but people should ask more questions. If anybody has a problem with you asking questions, then they are probably worried about what they are teaching you or telling you. If I know I'm right, question me all day and I will counter those questions with facts. If you run out of questions, then we should be good. If you question me and I can't answer, it's going to make me think about it more, which will make us progress more.
Going back to vetting guests and stuff, the production premise of this was based around Rogan. He's the man. He is a professional in the world of podcasting. He's fucking amazing. He's great at what he does.
It will never be perfect.
There are more people that like him than probably don't. It depends on what group you fall into. If you are falling into a group, you can agree with things on both sides of a podcast. We have some readers that I have heard from personally that say, “I don't always agree with the people that you have on, what they say, or your political values, but I enjoy reading it for that opinion.” Sometimes we get thank you’s from that and it's completely from the left park.
Shout out to them because I respect that. Have you ever read The Book of Five Rings?
It’s awesome.
Maybe I sound like I'm ranting and I'm not perfect even.
We are going down some rabbit holes as soon as we opened this bottle of whiskey.
It's helping my throat.
You sound much better.
I do sound clearer. Shout-out to Breckenridge Whiskey. If you read that book of Miyamoto Musashi, and I talked about this on my podcast before, it’s like, “Know your enemy.” If you take the most polarizing thing right now, politics, they don't listen to the other side. It's rabble. “I'm right.” Take me, for instance, with fights. I will watch my opponent. I will learn about them. I will watch interviews they do. I see how they talk. I do a lot of things and I don't dwell on it, but I research them.
People get so divided they don't want to hear the other side. They also don't want to admit if that is a good point. We were talking about Colorado earlier and I was saying we have guns and weed thing. That's how I used to explain it to people. We are neutral or used to be maybe still a little bit. If you know the other side or if you are so hard here and you are like, “I'm right,” you should study your opponent. You should know what they are talking about and why you should interview them.
Take it a step further. It doesn't have to be an opponent. Why can't you have a fucking conversation? Why is it so divided? Why can't you listen to somebody and then, hopefully, get a chance to rebuttal how you feel about it? Maybe it will change your opinion and maybe it won't. Maybe it will solidify your opinion. That's even better to know that you are right.
Disagreeing doesn't mean you have to hate each other. I have got tons of friends whom we disagree on a lot of things, but we are friends. We don't let that come between us, but I will hear you out. You can have a respectful conversation about things and it will make you better. You might still not agree, but you don't have to hate them. You take what they say and then process it. Maybe even research what they said. You are not always right. I have been proven wrong a ton of times.
Disagreement doesn't mean you have to hate each other. You can have a respectful conversation about things, and it will make you better.
You got to be careful where you are getting your information these days, too, because you can literally go find anything you want to hear, whether it's a medical fucking thing. I'm so ingrained in Colorado deep. I might be the only person on my side of the family that knows how to Google and shit, but on her side if there's a medical condition or something, they are looking it up right away. They are like, “You are fucked. You are about to die. You better go to the emergency room.” You can find any information that you are looking for these days to solidify your own opinions. You got to be careful with that. You have to try to figure it out. It is the algorithm.
I don’t know about you guys, but I'm big on Reddit. What I do on Reddit is the same thing. If I read something, I'm like, “Wow.”
Those are normal people making tweets, statements, or blogs.
People post articles and forums and stuff. If I read something from Fox News, I will go read the opposing side. I'm like, “Those are complete opposites.” Someone is wrong here or they are both wrong. You got to be able to analyze things. This might not be a good analogy but I have been out hunting before and semi-lost. Did you have Dustin Jacoby on here?
I did. I got to ask you about that.
He and I got lost one day, hunting. It was both of our first times.
Do you guys hunt together?
Yeah. We have been friends forever. His first elk ever was with me.
He told that story here.
Did he tell you he almost killed me?
I don't know about that. I'd have to go back and read it. I'm sorry, Dustin.
We were lost. It was daytime. We were leaving that day. He and I weren't familiar with the area. We let the guys that were familiar with the area in the group. It had been all day. We were like, “I don't know. Is it that way?” I was like, “I think it's this way.” He's like, “I think it's that way,” but then we started discussing like, “Why do you think it's that way?” this and that. We weren't fighting about it. We both wanted to be right. We were both looking for the same goal.
You are trying to solve the problem.
We both had conflicting things and it's a fork in this trail in the woods in the middle of fucking nowhere. At least it was daylight. We weren't super lost. We just started discussing, “Are you sure? Why do you think it's that way?” I'm sharing. We weren't arguing or anything like that.
There's a fork in the road.
He was, “Here's why.” It ended up fine. I don't remember who was right. We didn't give a shit who was right once we got back. Part of it was we were hurrying because we are not trying to stay another night and don't want to be lost in the middle of nowhere too. It’s things that. That's a small thing but can translate to life.
That's why it's good to have those experiences out there. When it comes to news, media outlets, or something like that, I appreciate people and news organizations. This can be biased too. You got to fact check these people. You never know whatever, but something that states the facts. An F-22 was scrambled to go to the Canadian border. That's all I need to hear.
I don't need to hear your opinion of China or Russia or nuclear. I don't need any of that bullshit. I want the facts, what happened, and why this is a problem. I will come to my own conclusions. I will create my own fear because all that shit is running through my head. Let me create that myself. Why are we being force-fed our own opinions? That's why I feel in this culture with toxic masculinity and BLM. I'm chalking it up now.
I feel that all this, you are being told how to feel and react and you are not given any of the facts. The facts are there, but you literally have to go hunt and find them for yourself without hearing some outside influence. To read through that and get the facts is so hard now. I appreciate outlets that are giving you the facts.
The facts are there, but you literally have to go find them for yourselves without hearing some outside influence.
This is from a military standpoint on Instagram. This is an Instagram account so who knows how credible this is? I appreciate these guys because it's literally the facts. It's OAF Nation. It’s a huge account. They are a media outlet. They are giving you the facts of what's happening around the world. I'm not saying that it's right. Some of them are headlines. Some of them are from the New York Times.
There's another buddy while you are on Instagram if you go to @CTT-Solutions. This is a buddy of mine. His name is Mike Pannone. You can look him up. You can do it all. He trains cops, the military, and everything. His background is insane. I don't have to give you the whole story, but he was part of Delta Force. He is a Green Beret, and all these things. He's a Marine, then switched to the Army. He became a Green Beret. I could be wrong on this, but he's one of the very few people in the world to ever do what he does.
He's part of Delta Force. It's legitimately proven. You can look it up. He lost one of his eyes over there, training at some point. He was on my show. He told me the story. He and I have worked together. He puts out videos about a lot of police instructors and shitty shooting training. He will post them. People will argue with him and everything and he's like, “I have been in pretty much every combat scenario you can think of live.”
These other people that are instructors that have never been shot at might be at certain police departments. He travels around the country and that's what he will say. He is like, “How many times have you been shot at?” His big thing lately has been, and I might butcher this because I'm not an expert on him, is the fact that certain police departments teach too.
If you pull up, shoot out the window while you are sitting in the car and he's like, “That will get you killed. Get out of the car. It doesn't matter.” You guys can dig through this. He and I talk almost daily and he's like, “It's like with what you do. People that have never done it will argue with you and tell you that they know, but they have never been live doing it.” I give him a lot of credit because he gets a ton of flack, but who else has been there in all of these situations?
He's like, “You are going to argue with me as you might work for SWAT, but have you ever been in these scenarios? You learned it away and you keep teaching it. I'm trying to teach you a better way to do it because I know from experience.” Sure enough, there are always people that are like, “No.” Life experience is worth more than college.
Experience matters. Life experience is worth more than college.
I learned something a long time ago. It's a hustling street mentality, instincts, and stuff. It depends on your job, but you can learn a lot more things from life than you can in school. The problem with school is they tell you, “This is why because I said, and that's what the people before me said.” Again, it’s questioning. When college thesis and getting your doctorate, you're writing all these things and people that discover new things go against the grain and question, “Why?” The people that follow are like, “This is what I learned, so then I'm going to teach everybody else that.” They never ask why or question any part of it.
Nobody ever questions them. Going back to what you were talking about with you and Dustin, also having some camaraderie with peers is super lost and with adversity.
It could be a discussion. It doesn't have to be a fight. My girlfriend and I talk about it all the time. We don't have fights. We have discussions. We disagree on things. We are not perfect, but we never yell at each other or fight. She's the most easygoing person I have ever been with because if I disagree, as soon as somebody loses their cool on a disagreement, I'm like, “You are questioning if you are right.”
If you know you are right, you are usually pretty calm and cool. I know because I know. Go ahead and look it up. I do that all the time. I will tell people. I'm like, “Google it. I will bet you.” If I'm unsure, I won't say that. I'm like, “Leave your phone down. We are talking right now.” Anyways, give him a follow.
I'd love to have him on too.
He might be coming out here for the fight. I'm sure you have a lot of law enforcement and stuff on here.
We have had a ton of not first responders. I'd like to have more. I have been careful about that. We have had some firefighters on like wildland firefighters specifically because it's a wild job. They are highly underlooked in that community. There are all these foundations that take care of actual firefighters and a lot of first responders and stuff, but they are backburnered. These guys are literally doing it for a passion. I feel like it's a dying breed because they are not doing it for the pay or the glory.
If you know anything about the smoke jumpers and stuff, they are digging ditches and shit half the time.
These guys are so badass. It's like having you or an operator in here. These are the people that I like surrounding myself with, people with real life experiences that have faced adversity. I'm not saying you have to be humble, but if you have checked those two boxes, you are going to be humble in some way.
Humbleness finds greatness. Anybody that's great has been humbled, and the reason they are great is because of how they answered that or they answered adversity in a certain way and learned from it.
It's okay to fail.
If you take Muhammad Ali, any of those people like people that have answered adversity become great. You don't take the path of greatness without any pushback or anything. Nobody's ever done that because nobody would consider you great. You just said what everybody else thought. It's the people that are the outliers that question. They go through adversity. They get knocked down. They come back. There are 1 million things.
When I was starting this show, I asked numerous friends, “Should I do this?” Eighty percent of them probably told me, “I don't know. Probably not a good idea.” Not that it wasn't a good idea, but they would tell you negative things that could happen because of that. There were two that were like, “Why the fuck aren't you doing this? Just fucking do it. Why are you talking about it?”
Who gives a shit? You fail, you come back. I tell you a cool quote I heard from the Owner of Fit Soda.
He does the podcast with you too, Involuntary Yoga. You guys are good together. I enjoy that podcast.
Chris Miller is my boss there. I have a partnership with the company, but he is my boss. He is the CEO of the company, founded and started it. That's a whole cool another story, but he told me one of the coolest quotes I'd ever heard and I'd never heard it because I can't remember what we were talking about. We were talking about criticism, hate, and everything.
He goes, “Have you ever heard the term, ‘Nobody's ever built a statue for a critic? It’s because nobody gives a shit.’” Critics are not remembered. They are always the ones that are negative and everything. It's the people that become great. They will make a statue of you because you endured all the criticism and kept going. You believed in something. It was super cool to me. I was like, “I have never heard that.” I don't know if he made it up or what.
Critics are not remembered. People will make a statue of you because you endured all the criticism, kept going, and believed in something.
It's a famous quote. I can't remember. Jeremy, you might have to look this up. They don't make statues of critics. There’s a ton of great quotes out there. Have you read the book of The Four Agreements?
Yeah.
Be impeccable with your word. How great is that?
I'm about to do the audiobook again. I feel like that's a once a year one.
That's what I love about Audible. You can bookmark stuff so it will save 10 or 20 seconds of it or you can make notes so you can go back. If you wanted to listen to one line before your fight, you could go back and listen to that. Dustin is big on that. Let's dive back into MMA. We went down going for a while. I love what we do here because of that because the conversation could go anywhere. We haven't scripted any of this. It's literally come in. The next thing you know, you were sick, and now we are drinking whiskey, but this is where we are at.
Dustin Jacoby, I was doing a little bit of homework. I remember your name. My ears perk up when I hear your name on a fight card. I'm like, “I know that dude.” Maybe it's because I follow Colorado Fighters because I feel maybe I'm not the guy with the native bumper sticker, but there is a connection to your hometown.
Colorado raised badasses, that mile-high lore, fighting it altitude, and that whole thing is cool. I worked out Denver and I was, “I ran my fastest smile in a couple of years because I worked out in Denver.” I follow Colorado Fighters and there's so many here to follow, so my ears perk up when I hear you on the card.
I never put 2 and 2 together because since I have had the show and it's been crazy. We have had Dustin Jacoby in a couple of times. I was going back through, I was like, “I'm going to go watch because I love UFC Fight Pass. I love the fact that I can go back and watch these fights that date back many years ago.” You can look it up by fighter specific and all that stuff. It's so rad. Going back through that, I typed in Chris Camozzi and went back to see who you had fought and stuff, and I'm like, “Chris Camozzi versus Dustin Jacoby, I'm watching this right now.”
I was like, “If we would have had a microwave here, I would have gone and popped some popcorn.” I was that invested. I turned the shit on and it blew my mind because now, even though this happened a long time ago, you are coming on. I know Dustin personally is a friend now. I would call him a friend. I know he's one of your best buddies so we are not even close in that realm.
I'm not trying to un-BFF you. Going back and watching this, you guys must have kicked each other in the nuts six times each. It was just like nut shots because you were southpaw and he's orthodox. It was awesome to watch, knowing that you were coming in and then watching some of your fights and knowing what you have done. He's on a tier right now, but it was so rad watching you and Dustin go at it. Did you know each other prior to that and were friends?
We’re acquaintances. Oddly enough, I look young. I have no muscles. I don't have the tan still.
You look young here. How old were you then, 20, 22, or 23 maybe?
Somewhere in there. Dustin was younger than me. Dustin had seven fights maybe at the time. He got into the UFC quickly.
You had a little bit on him coming into this.
I had a lot of fights outside the UFC. I want to say he was my third UFC fight, but prior to that, we had met. We were on the same card. Him and I were in Vegas. This fight was in Chicago. In both of our previous fights, I did kick him in the nuts.
Take that Dustin. He got you back.
I said it again. He doesn't have any kids, but you are still not having kids. There's my logo.
It’s a little Factory X on there.
We both fought in Vegas.
You could probably look it up on here.
I honestly don't remember, but we both lost on the same card, but we had met there. It's funny how all things are tied together. We are in the same workout rooms. We are fighting two different people. The fight before this was in Vegas, so we just started talking. I talk to everybody when I'm there. I will talk to my opponent. If we are walking by or we are in the same elevator, I'm like, “How are you doing?”
I don't have a problem with it. It's normal, but he was there fighting somebody else and we strike up conversation. He's like, “You are from Denver, huh?” I'm like, “Yeah.” He's like, “I'm from Colorado.” I'm like, “No way.” That's that tie right there. He grew up in Fort Lupton and I thought he was an Illinois guy. He did kick me in the balls. Fuck you, Dustin.
It happened 5 or 6 times. I was laughing about it. This made me realize too. This is back when Bruce Buffer used to wear normal suits like just a plain black suit with a white shirt.
It's old as shit. Funny enough. Here's a little piece of history too for the UFC. This is the last unaired prelim ever. This was before Facebook, everything.
This wasn't on TV. That's probably why I didn't watch it before now.
It was the absolute last unaired prelim ever in the UFC, and then after that, they went to all their streaming services and stuff because the main card was on Fuel TV. We got to talking while we were there and we were both always training at the same time and he was cool. We got along well. We ended up cutting weight at the same time.
You can't not like the guy even if you fight him. We both lose our fights in that card. We go home. Brian Foster is my friend now, but he was Dustin's good friend. I don't know if you remember him. He was like, “You are fighting Camozzi next.” He's like, “What do you think?” Sure enough, a few months later, I get a call. I'm in bed. It was at 7:00 at night or something, probably later if I'm in bed. I get a call from my manager and he's like, “You got your next fight. It's in Chicago. You are fighting Dustin Jacoby.” I was like, “Fuck. Really?” It's like you just start to like somebody.
He's got a bond with this dude.
The UFC doesn't negotiate. They don't care especially when you are on the undercard. Unless you are hurt, you are doing it.
Chris Camozzi: The UFC doesn't negotiate. They don't care, especially when you're on the undercard. They’re like, “Unless you're hurt, you're doing it.”
You are scared to say no. You can't say no.
I didn't know him well enough to where I would say no, but I was like, “I like the guy,” so we fight. Getting on the plane, I'm leaving Denver. I'm with Mark. It's United. There are three seats. I'm here. Dustin's grandparents sit next to me. It’s this cute old couple. I'm getting on the plane. His grandma was like, “Is your name Chris?” I was like, “Yeah. How's it going?” like I had no idea. She's like, “I'm Justin Jacoby's grandma. You are fighting my grandson.” I was like, “Nice to meet you.” She was like, “Good luck. You are going to need it.”
I have gotten to know his grandparents. I have hung out with them. I have gone to dinner with them. I have been to their house and everything since, but it was funny. I'm in the window seat and then, they are in the aisle in the middle. She's like, “Good luck. You are going to need it.” I'm sitting in this seat and I was like, “Thanks.” I started watching a movie or whatever I was doing, but it was funny, especially getting to know them after.
She'd made me dinner and stuff. She's passed since, unfortunately, but it was funny. I told him that and he was like, “No, she did not.” “Your grandma told me good luck like I'm going to need it,” and he started laughing. He's like, “She did not.” I was like, “No. I swear to God. She did.” He goes, “That's my grandma.” His grandpa sat there quietly, shaking his head. We fought. I ended up winning. It was a tough fight.
It went to a decision.
We kept in contact and then, he decided to come out to Denver, start training a little bit, and then made the move.
Was that the only time you guys had fought or did you fight?
That's the only time we had fought.
You then trained together for a long time.
Yeah. He came out. He would stay at my house. His wife was back in Illinois. He would stay with me for a month at a time and try out the gym. To his credit, back then, when he was first starting at Glory, he wasn't training with anybody. He was running and hitting a heavy bag.
He trained under Matt Hughes for a while when he moved to Iowa to do that or something.
At this point, he was probably with the HIT Squad. I broke his nose in this fight. I have a picture of it still. There's a point, he snapped one of my fingers. My fingers were stuck. Funny enough, if he had listened to his corner, there's a point later in the fight, third round or something, my fingers are stuck. It looks I'm throwing a gang sign West Side. My fingers are crossed because it snapped and I couldn't get it back. His coaches are like, “Shoot.” I couldn't throw a punch.
I remember that. You were only throwing right.
I'm pulling it. I had to pop it.
This is the 2nd round because you got it back in the 3rd. There's the young Mark there too.
I remember thinking if he would have shot a takedown, I don't know if I could have stopped it because I couldn't grab anything. I couldn't make a fist and the finger's over here, but I ended up winning. I always root for him. I love that dude. It's cool to see.
He's such a great human. I have only known him a couple of years but he's a great guy.
Myself included, but honestly, I had a lot of experience. I still needed more. When I watch this, I cringe. He was pushed to the UFC too. I'm so glad he made it back.
You guys have both had two runs.
I might have had three. I'm so glad he made it back because I used to tell him, “You had seven fights.” Who has seven fights and goes in the UFC? There are some now. For how skilled he is, he needed a little bit more time. I don't think my experience won this. If we are being honest, I threw an onside kick that made him fall and I grabbed the choke. It wasn't planned. I wasn't like, “I'm going to kick his leg. He's going to fall. I'm going to choke him.”
This is fighting. You are talking about two guys at a fucking pro level. Anything could happen. I don't care who you are.
It was an opportunistic thing. My experience didn't make me run over him or anything, but I'm so glad he decided to not give up on MMA because seeing him now, there was a point he was doing good in kickboxing and I was begging him. I'm like, “The UFC will sign you. Just come back.”
He crushed it at Glory.
It took some determination for him because he was making decent money fighting in Glory. For him to come back to MMA, he had to fight locally for shit money. That's why he was like, “I'm making this much money over here. Why would I fight some killer for $3,000?” It was probably less back then. I cornered him for those fights and he did it though, and then they did sign him. I'm so happy that it worked out because that dude is so athletic.
He's making a real run now too.
He's probably one of the most powerful strikers.
I love watching him fight.
Even when we drill, I'm like, “Why are you swinging so hard? We are drilling.” He's like, “My bad. I'm not.” He has heavy hands that thump you and he is athletic as hell. He is a college quarterback.
How does his nose get broken?
It was in the first round. I dropped him with a hook. It was a tough one.
Shout-out to Dustin. If you are reading this, you have probably been the most shout-outed person on this show. You are top of the list of people that have been named. Dustin shouted you out. Derek shouted you out. I'm trying to think. There's been a ton of people.
This is fun. I could talk about this stuff all day.
We are going to have you back. We are coming up in three hours. We are going to wrap it up here pretty quickly. We are half a bottle of whiskey in.
How about we do it after this fight? I got to get another first round knockout.
Let's fucking do it. I want to come down to your fight. I'm going to try to make it down. I'm going to try to rearrange this schedule. We don't have to run out of here. We don't have to end exactly at three hours either, but I want to be respectful of your time. I got some other shit I got to take care of too. This has been fucking awesome. You are right down the road, so you are welcome here anytime.
Let's hang out outside of here. Let's go shoot our bows or whatever it is. It would be awesome. Coming up, Bare Knuckle is happening. You have your podcast. There are so many things that Chris Camozzi has going on, a modeling career, a wife to keep track of that has her own businesses and all that stuff. Let's shed a light on some of that. The big thing is the fight.
April 29th, 2023 BK UFC, so Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship.
That 1STBANK right outside of Denver. It's in Thornton.
Broomfield. Come out in person if you want. You can hit me up. I have a ticket code if you follow me on Instagram or anything. There's a link in my bio.
That's how we will buy our tickets.
We do get credit for those so do it.
Can you shout it out right now?
It's a link. The promo code is CAMOZZI, but come out. I'm working on the after-party right now. I'm going to have one in Denver so you guys will have to come out. I should get you guys to come do a live podcast at the after-party.
I'm down. We got some mutual friends. Shout-out to Half Face and Bito. We didn't even get into that but we will on the next one for sure.
Half Face Blades will be in the house to sponsor mine. I don't know if you have heard of Leviathan Defense. They are sponsoring me for this. They are coming out. They make ARs and Pistols.
That's super rad about this sport because the UFC took all that away. It was awesome to have all those sponsors back in the day individualized. It turned into a little bit of a clique, but they are allowing that in Bare Knuckle now.
Bare Knuckle does. That's why a lot of guys are going there. Bellator and Bare Knuckle like the UFC sponsorship stuff. The guys lost a ton of money. I lost a ton. I had some cool ones.
You got some awesome ones now. Half Face, anybody that owns one of their blades or follows them. It's like a dream come true to be a sponsored athlete by Half Face Blades. It’s fucking rad.
It's a cool story, cool company, and cool people. That's what I like working with so I don't take sponsorships from people. My mom loves me and my mom buys everything that anybody that supports me.
She rocking a Half Face right now.
She probably does have one but so I don't rep companies that I don't like. I don't like to fake it.
We are the same way here.
As long as I like it, I will do it. I have turned down big companies. I'm like, “I don't like your product because my mom is going to go out and buy it. My family's going to go out and buy it and if I hate it, then I'm a liar.
Be impeccable with your word.
I read the book. I read it a couple of times or listened to it, but April 29th, 2023 at 1STBANK Center. I'm fighting another buddy of mine. I'd say, acquaintance. We have known each other for a long time.
You guys fought in the UFC.
No, we have trained together a little bit. We have known each other for a long time. When I got off at the fight, I text him and I was like, “Did you get off of this fight? I'm wondering.” I don't know if they are bullshitting or not, and he's like, “No, I didn’t.” I was like, “Let's get it.” He's like, “All right.” It should be an interesting one. I have never lost to a friend, so hold onto that. Check out my podcast, Involuntary Yoga. Do you know what that means?
I'm assuming jiu-jitsu or MMA-referenced.
You go to yoga because you want to. Involuntary yoga means I'm going to bend you even though you don't want to.
That's the only reason I have ever picked up yoga. My wife goes to it all the time and does all the crazy fucking Bikram yoga, the saunas, and all that shit. I'm like, “That's the only time I have considered.” Since I have started jiu-jitsu, it is like, “I got to get more flexible. I got to try to get to that rubber guard or whatever it is.”
That's not big guy jiu-jitsu. It means that I'm going to bend you no matter what. I'm going to fold your clothes with you in it, little pun.
You guys are so good. The production value is fucking amazing. I need to get some pointers from you. I'm going to hit you up after this. You guys are killing it in that space. I love the whole camera angle and everything. It's good. You guys have our buddy Luke Caudillo on. We have so many mutual friends. It's cool that we are doing this, so shout out to all those dudes.
Also, Fit Soda. Like I said, it's my company and you can find them everywhere from now. We are going to blow up. We are taking over.
It's good. I will be drinking this. That's one thing trying to be health conscious and be on a decent diet to have these little cheats like hack codes. I love energy drinks. Working for Monster, I got all the free Monster I wanted back in the day, and that's why I love this. Jocko Fuel has been fucking awesome because I'm literally addicted to them. Now, I got a new addiction with Fit Soda because it tasted like I'm drinking a Sprite. It's fucking awesome. It's good for you. I need as much amino acids as I can get, and there's a bunch of vitamins in here.
No sugar, no coloring, and no calories.
This isn't an advertisement. Be impeccable with your word people. This is honest opinion. It's fucking good shit. It goes good with this whiskey.
Cheers. Thank you. See you, guys.
This has been awesome. Chris, really quick, Instagram, websites, or anything like that. Where can people find you and follow you?
Instagram is the only place you can find me now @ChrisCamozziMMA. I got kicked off Facebook. I got to figure that out. I posted a picture of hitting mitts in the ring and they said it’s inciting violence and suspended my email. I'm going to have to make another one. If you are reading this, I will put it out. I'm on Twitter. It's @ChrisCamozzi. Come out to the fight Bare Knuckle.
This has been super rad. I appreciate your time, and good luck with the fight. We will be there watching.
Cheers.
Important Links
Involuntary Yoga - Spotify
Josh Walker - Past Episode
Derek Wolfe - Past Episode
Eric Telly – Past Episode
Luke Caudillo – Past Episode
Dave Roberts – Past Episode
Dustin Jacoby - Past Episode
OAF Nation - Instagram
@CTT-Solutions - Instagram
@ChrisCamozziMMA - Instagram
@ChrisCamozzi - Twitter