#125 Joel Olbeira - Live Event Production Rigger
Joel Olbeira - Live Event Production Rigger, & Miami Native, Joel has spent 20 plus years hanging & building major live events at some of the highest levels in music touring, major sporting events, television award shows & aerospace events. Some of his work includes working with Red Hot Chili Peppers, AC/DC, U2, Florence & The Machine, Super Bowl Halftime Shows, NBA Finals, The Miami Heat & Many More. Tune in as Joel Olbeira joins Bobby Marshall on Location in Florida to discuss rock n roll touring, live music, sports entertainment, live entertainment production, work ethic, Egypt, Family & much more.
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Joel Olbeira - Live Event Production Rigger
Our guest for this episode is my good friend Joel Olbeira. Joel has spent twenty-plus years as a production rigger, working on some of the world's largest live events, including the Super Bowl Halftime, rock concerts at the pyramids in Egypt, NBA championships, and much more. Above all that, not only has Joel had an amazing career, he's got an incredible outlook on life. He's one of my favorite humans to be around. I thoroughly enjoyed our trip to Florida to record with him on location and I hope you enjoy the episode.
Here we go. It's been awesome.
It’s my pleasure.
It's great. I love having you around. It's cool that I'm down in Florida to see your home state.
It’s a couple of hours from my house, about three and a half hours from Miami.
Were you born and raised in Miami?
Yeah, born and raised there in a place called Little Havana. It's a section over by 8th Street, 12th Avenue, close to downtown. It's populated with a lot of Cubans, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans. It’s got a little bit of all cultures there.
Your ethnicity, is it Cuban?
It's Cuban. My parents are Cuban. My whole family is traced down pretty much from Cuba. I was born in Miami and it’s fun over there growing up. A lot of good food, good seasoning, flavor, something that we all love.
I love that culture. Miami's one of my favorite places to go and do a show back when I was road-dogging hard.
I enjoyed learning about this business and getting the opportunity to work there because we got to work so much. When tours kick off, shows kick off, who doesn't want to come play in the Miami arena, American Airlines, or somewhere in Miami where you have the water in the back? It makes the show that much more interesting. The crowd is usually pretty hype in Miami when you go to a show. It's cool. Having the opportunity to do shows down there has truly been a blessing. I enjoy every time I get the opportunity to do so.
The crew is solid. If you're a road guy and you're going in there, you know that you're going to have a good day because you got solid ass people that work their asses off.
Also, get a lot of experience because we're turning over shows.
It's a hotspot. Everybody wants to party.
It's on everyone's itinerary.
The weather's always good.
You get a little rain during the summer. It could rain at 3:00 PM out of nowhere. Ten minutes later, the sun shines back out. Beautiful. Something that takes getting used to is the humidity.
I'm not used to that shit.
You never get used to it. I’ve been there all my life and I'm still not used to the humidity when it cranks up like that.
I’ve only worked an outdoor gig there once. We were doing a beach gig on 2nd Street. I had no idea. That's a topless beach.
We got a couple of those.
There was not a whole lot of work getting done when females were walking by us. Miami's a different spot for the US. It's one of my favorites. That's what's up. It's crazy. I’ve known you for years and we probably have worked together prior to that and didn't even know it.
You mentioned you've come through with various shows. I'm sure I was there because I’ve been working there since 1999 when the Miami Arena was up and then they tore that down. In 2000, American Airlines was built. I’ve pretty much done every show there. I stopped working there. I'm sure we ran into each other and I didn't know it because sometimes we're working on getting things done.
It's the dynamic.
It's hit the floor running. You're focused on your gig and if you remember someone, we always stop and say hi but quickly go back to work because we stay on top of it.
That's a misconception in the rock and roll industry that you're backstage drinking Jack Daniels, and hanging out with chicks.
If it is, I missed that.
None of that was going on.
It's working together. It's staying safe, communication, and speed. Speed helps because a lot of what we do is on a time frame. We got only so long before we need to turn the stage over to maybe start rehearsals and do certain things.
Speed helps because a lot of what we do is within a time frame.
Some of the most professional unprofessionals you'll ever meet in your life. No filter. People that are good at their job.
A lot of drive, passion, and getting ready to ride.
We were talking about that over a beer. There is an artistic background to what we do. You have to have some passion for creation and seeing the final picture to even get the job done.
The vision of the show you're trying to put together, the details on making it exceptional. When the crowd walks in, they get what they want. The band’s there ready to rock, so we got to do our part. We make sure we put it together nice and clean and then turn it to them and they do the rest. Make the magic happen.
Live Event Production Rigger: The bands are ready to rock, so we have to do our part, make sure we put it together nice and clean, and then turn it over to them. They do the rest and make the magic happen.
You showed me some shit. It was badass. I’ve never seen anybody have a championship ring. Tell me a little bit more about that and how did you get that? That's not something that the teams are given out. You have to be like part of the staff.
How I got the opportunity to have that and to get the opportunity to be in the mix where your company is who purchased it for you. You got to do seven years consecutively to be involved in Heat, whether it's spotlights or halftime.
Is this in the NBA? Specific rules?
Yeah. Your company is subcontracted by the building. We were spotlight operators for that. I was there for seven years doing every game, hanging banners for them, and doing dinner parties for them. Anytime the Heat needed anything, I was one of the people that were on the court making things happen for them.
Mainly on the roof, right?
Yeah. For the games, what I did was run the spotlight. We did an introduction for dancers doing anthem halftime shows, and things like that.
Hanging some championship banners.
Rigging all the championship banners up there. We did a lot of work there. After seven years, my boss at that time got a letter saying that a few of his employees have been involved for seven years or more. If he wanted to purchase one of the tier-three rings, he had the opportunity to do so. He was cool enough to do it. The LD for the Heat is a good friend of mine. His name is Simon. He's got 2 or 3 because he's been there for multiple years and got the opportunity to purchase. I think ’06 was the first one that we won.
You were probably in the building for that championship year.
Yes. We ran the spotlight for all the games. I saw all the final fours, all the Heat games, and all the battles. I saw the Ray Allen three-pointer that put us right where we needed to be to win that game. That was electrifying. I’ll never forget how loud it was. Everyone got up and screamed when we made that shot. That was pretty cool.
To have that piece of jewelry like that.
To me, it's history. It's a memory for me and not only me but my family. When my little girls grow up and they ask about it, I got a little story for him and show them and maybe show them some videos and some basketball games and stuff. “Your dad was up there doing a little light work, a little something with a bunch of whole other people that made it happen. It was cool.”
You’ve shown me some of the photos of it and stuff.
It's one of the great things.
It's got your name on it. They went all out, like a team member.
On the inside, it's got a lot of games, and final four scores, and then on the side, they'll put your name, what year you started, and what year you got the ring. It says, “Heat Championship.” It's a pretty cool piece.
Being in Miami and being in the business of live entertainment, a lot of people have a misconception that maybe all we do are concerts and stuff, but you do major sporting events, whatever's in town. You're a local guy. How many Super Bowls have you worked on? Miami's the hotspot. They're there every 3 or 4 years.
Quite a few as a stagehand. The first one, I can't remember what year it was, but Prince did the halftime.
That was when he played in the rain.
He started singing the song Purple Rain and it started raining and it was spectacular. Cool thing. I remember I was one of the stagehands to help push the stage together and it was super cool. You got a few seconds to get in your spot and make everything happen. A few minutes to set everything up before the magic happens.
It takes seven minutes because I did it a number of years, too, on the production side and got to travel to some spots. Honestly, the highlight of my career was Super Bowl 50 because I'm a Denver fan. I was there. I signed up for everything because you know how they time your credential depending on what job you have. You're only allowed on the field and there are times on your credential. I don't know if it was like that back when you were doing it, but I signed up for everything. I was like, “I'm going to do the pre-game stage and the national anthem.”
As fucking as involved as you can be. I haven't been lucky enough to have a Miami Dolphins Super Bowl.
It's been a minute. It might take a minute too. It's crazy. I lucked out that I got to go and my team was there. I worked on a bunch where my team wasn't there and it was still cool. It's a whole another level when your team's there.
It's always a good group of people that they put together for those events. Everyone's collectively working together and making a real nice show happen. It's truly enjoyable to work with the individuals that we get to cross paths with that. A lot of them, we share stories like me and you. We've had conversations where we share like, “You went through something like that? I went through something similar.” You meet all types of different people and it's cool. It's one of my favorite parts of this job.
It's mine too. That's the main reason why I wanted to have you on.
I appreciate it. Thank you.
I love you as a human. I'm always happy to see you. I was like, “Fuck, I got to share this moment, what I'm doing now with Joel. I’m in Florida and let's go.”
Thanks for having me on. I was a little nervous when you first asked me because I’ve never done anything like sit there. This is kicking back and shooting the shit like we always do.
The amount of time that we've spent working, we don't get to share those moments, but there's a ton of downtime where it's me and you hanging out. We're always laughing.
That makes the time go by.
Messing with other people. A few pranks here or there. If you're reading this and you got pranked by us, you know what's up.
Get us back. We don't mind. It's all good.
That's the biggest reason why I’ve stayed in this business. After a while, the shows are like whatever. You're so tired by the time the shows come up and I’ve seen some amazing things. I’ve seen some amazing performances. The people and the bond that you have, and the amount of suck that you go through build these bonds, and you figure out who's a ride or die too. Who's got your back? I feel like our industry weeds people out that are not team players. They don't stick around that long.
It’s because there's no room for it. The real progress and accomplishments of being on a team are working together and bringing the best you can to the table. Days fluctuate. Some days are better than other days. Doing the best you can every day is important for a team like this because everyone's counting on each other.
The real progress and accomplishments of being on a team come from working together and bringing the best you can to the table.
The timeframes are crazy. That's one thing that's been crazy about this business for me. I started it right out of high school. No college. I cut my teeth. I didn't go to some art school or something to learn how to do this. It was like, “Get in the van and let's go. Get on the bus.“
What keeps me going in this business and I thought about it a little bit, the people are awesome. Everyone that I’ve come across is truly awesome. Different places, different jobs. It's similar but it's always different in a way. Every building comes with different challenges. Every local crew comes with different challenges. It's always different. I'm not sure. I'm not going to say I can't, but it'd be pretty hard for me to work in the same office every day, especially after doing something like this for so long.
We were talking about the money.
Nothing against those that do. I give much respect and props to anyone who's holding down any job because that alone is challenging in itself. I’ve grateful that my office changes every day in a way or every week. That’s cool. Different cities, different venues, different crews, different people, different challenges. I’ll never get bored of it.
It's hard to get bored of it.
The only thing that'll make me stop is physical. There comes a time where you can't be as physical as you want to be. Whenever that time comes, I’ll know it.
You got a few years.
For me, it is like day one every day. It truly is. I enjoy what we do, who we do it for, and the stuff that we do. It's cool.
I’ve always enjoyed like working with my hands and seeing an end product. There's no other business to do that any faster than this, especially like a rock tour, the amount of shit you get.
Some cool shit happening in two hours.
In two hours, you can have some crazy shit up and running and moving. It's incredible. Especially nowadays, technology progresses. I had such a good time with you and Vinny when we went out. We went out to the bar. We were going to catch the UFC fight and then I realized that Canelo was fighting.
That was exciting. Multiple things happening. We got basketball going on. We had the UFC fights. The UFC fights were insane and everything was awesome because the Canelo fight was awesome too.
From a production standpoint, that was crazy.
I've never seen anything like that.
That was crazy.
To be able to hang that load, that size of gear up there, so much trusting, so much force into that.
Floating in free air pretty much.
In the center of a stadium, you figure there were skyhooks going on in there or something.
It's like hanging the moon. That was incredible. Whether you're a boxing fan or not, if you're reading this, go check out that intro.
Check out the fight. The fight is awesome.
The fight was great too.
It's got to be on YouTube or something, real good fight.
It was about as Mexican as it comes from being in Guadalajara. It was a good fight. As much time as we've spent together with all the stuff that's happening around us, we get to hang out, we get to talk, but it gets interrupted. One of the biggest reasons why I enjoy doing the show is there's going to be no interruptions during this conversation. That's cool. I know little tidbits about you over the years, hanging out and how you grew up, but I don't know the whole story. Are you comfortable with sharing?
There's nothing not to share. Everyone's got their childhood stories and things that they've been through. I grew up with a single mom. It was just me and my mom. I had an older brother who wasn't in the picture too much. He was into other things, so it was me and my mom. I was like a mama's boy and I still am to this day. My mom tried hard to do too good for two kids. It’s hard raising two boys as a single parent. I can only imagine. She taught me a lot of respect.
It was free to have respect and at certain times, I wanted to buy a lot of things and have a lot of things. She said, “Joel, the only thing we can afford right now is respect, giving, receiving, being kind, and being grateful for the little we do have.” I always think that there are a lot of people around that are unfortunate. There are other situations going out. No matter how bad your situation is, it's not as bad as you think.
That's such a good saying. You've told me that before and I can't think of a better way to put it. Your mom's a gangster. Shout out to moms.
To everybody's mom out there doing hard work to parents, to moms and dads going through it to make sure that they're their kids get a good opportunity at life, it’s not perfect. Nothing's perfect, but my mom put me in a position to where I can make my own choices. I want to say I chose more right than I did wrong. Everybody’s got those moments here. I kicked rocks a lot of times fucking around with the boys up to no good. I started working when I was like 13 or 14. It was pretty much construction stuff on the side, cash money.
This is where I want to go with it. How did you get into this?
I'm sitting at my best friend's house one day. He had an older sister who was dating a rigger in the business. Her boyfriend calls over and she's like, “Why don't you ask your brother if he wants to come work? We're down a couple of people. We could use somebody.” My boy wasn't into it. He was like, “No, I'm good.” It was the right time, right place for me. I'm like, “Why don't you send me? I'm looking for a new job. I'm looking for something different. Something that probably pays a little better,” and it happened. That night, I left my boy's house, went, and did my first load out. I can't remember what show it was, but I was nervous because it was traffic. It's speed. Fast things happen.
You're asking to get run over if you're in the spotlight.
You got your department lead. Whether you're in audio, video, rigging, lighting, or whatever it is that you're at, you got your department lead and he's asking you for things, cases, and cables. You're like, “What the fuck's going on here?” I was a stagehand, but I always loved to work. I was never afraid of work. I know working hard pays off, at least it did for me. To this present day, my hard work has given me the opportunity to provide for my family, and for myself, and have a little better quality of life.
Working hard pays off. It gives you the opportunity to provide for yourself and your family and have a little better quality of life.
I can't stress that enough. Show up on time and be happy to be there.
If you put your name on something, show up. It's so important. It doesn't matter who offers you what. You put your name on this, show up. You fulfill that and then the good opportunities come with that because a lot of people take something and then swap it up for something else because maybe they're making money over here making a couple of extra dollars over here. If I put my name on it, I’ll be there.
Put in the time too. Learn. Open your eyes.
Try to jump into something. I was a stagehand for maybe 2 or 3 years and the up riggers came up to me one day and they're like, “We see that you work hard and stuff like that. Are you afraid of heights?” I was always climbing trees.
Did you start with ground rigging?
No. I started up as an up rigger.
You started on the roof.
Straight up.
Are you not scared of heights or anything?
Never because I was always climbing roofs and trees and doing different things. I had respect for it, which I still do.
There was no pucker factor? The steel was 100 feet in the air.
When we started at the Miami arena, it was 60 and we had a 3-foot cap of beam. The beam was 3 feet wide. No fall protection at that time. I'm talking about 1999, 2000. There wasn't any fall protection there. We would get GAC Flex. We used to sling trusses and stuff like that. We'd wrap that around the beam and then we'd have a harness and clip ourselves to that. You're making your own safety.
There are no horizontal lifelines or anything like that?
Absolutely not. When we were working at American Airlines, I was fortunate enough to be a part of a team. We installed all that fall protection in that arena, the low steel and the high steel, because those big shows that would come through would require higher trims. We would have to rig stuff to the high steel or distribute the weight a little bit because maybe there's too much load on the low steel. You need to get some up there to distribute loads a little bit. It was challenging getting up there.
I’ve done minimal upbringing. I started in this business as a tour manager, so totally on the paperwork side and the bullshit side of the business. As I progressed with some different artists, bands, or whatever, I realized how much money could be made on the production side, the guys that were putting the show together. I got along with them well and they were my people because I had always had a construction background and stuff. I lucked out. I didn't local crew anymore. I did for a minute in Denver. When I had some downtime in between tours, I was like, “I'm going to hop on the local.” With my experience, they put me in a manager's position.
You got great hustle, Bobby. You do your thing. You rock hard. You’re an example of an exploration for me. Every time I see you, you work absolutely 100%.
This show's not about building me up or about me. It's about you.
It's about the truth, about who we are, and what we do. It’s always a pleasure working with you. You got a good attitude, a good approach. You got a great head on your shoulders. You’re badass at work. I’d work with you anywhere, anytime. That's fun.
It goes both ways. That means a lot coming from you. I hear it from some other people occasionally. It doesn’t mean as much. I appreciate it. The feeling is mutual. I love working with you. I know when you're there. I know somebody's got my back. I know shit's going to be safe because I want to dive into rigging a little bit more too for people that don't understand. We've been in the business for many years. We know all the slang terms, what a GAC flex or a shackle is. You can look this stuff up and they're legitimate things. This isn't some bullshit.
A lot of it comes from construction, from sailing, from that type of rigging, which is a very old trade.
You started there locally. You were there for more than twenty years. You put in your time.
Twenty years being involved in that local, but I'm traveling a lot. I got the opportunity to work for a company, Stageco, which does a lot of outdoor steel builds, the big stuff.
The Rolling Stones and U2.
Also, AC/DC. We did a lot of stuff. I’ll go back to Paul McCartney and Bon Jovi. I did some old-school stuff with them. Working with them was so awesome. I never worked with Stageco US. I worked a lot with the Belgians. That's where the company is originally from. It was established in Belgium. These guys are monsters. When it comes to working and building steel, these guys are monsters.
These might be the baddest dudes in the business. I was always easy with those guys.
These guys are working underwater, building stage, and water hip high. They’re getting down. It’s a lot of work. It's dangerous. There's a lot of crane work, big pieces, and time-consuming. You get built up. That builds character. I want to say we're working with teams that are like, “Go.” Those guys are go men.
When the work is dangerous, time-consuming, and has a lot of big, crazy pieces, that builds character.
They're nonstop. It's crazy. It shows your loyalty because, in this business, you can jump from job to job. There's something, for me personally, about being loyal and the people that I work with now, it's like, that's your team.
That's one of the most important things. You learn, at least in my neighborhood. It's loyalty.
Loyalty, family, and those things.
I enjoyed working for this company as long as I did. I was lucky that there were a bunch of badasses on it.
There were probably so many opportunities that came up prior to that where you could have gone out and done something differently or been lead rigger on a tour or something.
A lot of that stuff got shot down sometimes because in this business when it comes to moving around, they don't like for you to move around too much. If you're a heavy hitter on a local team, that team doesn't like to lose you.
When they call you the next time, they're calling you for a reason.
I put a lot of work focused on a couple of buildings back home and turned down a lot of opportunities but I don't regret any of it. I'm glad I started touring when I did. I'm glad I worked for who I did. Everything that I’ve done in this business and in my life got me sitting here in front of you now. To me, that's fucking cool. I enjoyed every bit of it, the good gigs, the not-so-good gigs, the challenging, the not-so-challenging, and everyone that I’ve worked for and with. It's been awesome. Thanks to everyone who helped me understand. Thanks to those guys and girls that stopped and gave me some game and said, “You don't know what this is. This is what it is. This is what you do it. This is how you use it.” I crossed a lot of good people along the way.
Mentors are key in this business. That's why loyalty's important. If somebody shows you something, it's because they want you to be part of their team or whatever it is.
Mentors are definitely key in any business.
They see that you're worth their time. “This kid's trying to do something with himself. Let me give them some of my time and knowledge.” Those guys changed my life, working with those guys. It was a good bunch. It was a great crew to be with. Every tour that came through there was happy to be in our arena. They knew that we were going to take care of the show. They knew we were going to do it. Not only fast, but safe and that they were going to have a nice day.
I never had any complaints there. Frankie the steward used to crack me up. This guy was like a beach body. He's an incredible human.
He’s a good example.
Biggest biceps I’ve ever seen.
He’s a hard-working guy too, nonstop, and good attitude. He takes care of the crew. It was a great crew, good guys.
This reminds me of something too. It's funny because it's a small community where you get to know all these people. Even spending a day with them, 24 hours, or 18 hours or however long you're in the building, but then you're going to see them again in six months when you're on the next tour or when that tour comes back, or whatever. Over the years, you start to see people’s faces.
You develop friendships. People are happy to come through. You're happy. You're, “It's you. That's awesome. Good to see you again.”
You start to figure out, “How's the family? How are the kids?”
The chemistry you start to develop from working with these crews, tours, and people. You start to learn the way they do things and how to gel and make it better and faster.
How to communicate with people in a genuine way.
You got to have that skill in this business because you run into different characters every day. You got to treat people differently. You can't treat everyone the same. Someone might not get offended. Some might get offended. It’s an adjustment. It's like a chameleon out here. You got to be a chameleon in this business.
When you run into different characters every day, you've got to treat people differently. You can't treat everyone the same.
You got to adapt and figure people out and what they're cool with and what they're not because people have a lot of heat.
I was the lead rigger there and there are hard times. When the boys get pissed and shit like that, you just got to know how to address them differently. The way you talk to this guy is not the way you talk to this guy.
Would you say that this industry is where you developed leadership skills?
I developed leadership in my home. I want to say that because I had to take control at an early age. I had to take control and I had to lead, not anyone but myself to making good choices and doing the right thing. That's already like a leader mentality. I wasn't the follower in my neighborhood. If my boys wanted to do something and I wanted to do something different, it was always real easy for me to break away and do my own thing because I led my own way. That's not what I want to do. I'd rather do this.
I grew up very similar. It was very easy for me.
You couldn't peer pressure me. You couldn't push me into doing anything. I wasn't that guy.
It can save your life in our business because you can’t have people push you in the wrong direction or have you do something that could be dangerous.
If you start following things that aren't going to be positive in your life, that's not going to get you anywhere. It's not going to get you better opportunities. You got to make a good choice. That's being a leader.
You're right on that. It's ironic how similar my background and your background are and a lot of guys in this business. It's wild.
We relate in a lot of different ways.
A lot of guys that I know that I get along with in this business and are good at their jobs come from backgrounds that were not so easy. It depends on what you call easy. We were talking about this. I have some friends of mine that lost limbs in the war, serving the country.
So much respect for those guys. What an inspiration to see that. What the fuck am I going to complain about? Are you kidding me? It could always be worse. You got to go through it.
I appreciate that and that's something I’ve learned in my older age. Being able to take that perspective is so important. Whenever I start feeling sorry for myself or like, “This sucks,” or whatever, all I have to do is remember this conversation that I had, meeting this person, or going to their Instagram page and seeing that. I hope I'm not getting too personal, but you brought up your girl with kids that have terminal illnesses.
Yes. It's in her heart. That’s all she loves to do.
How can you come home and complain?
I can’t. Sometimes she sends me pictures or stories or something. She shares a story with me or something. It’s heartbreaking to know that some of these little angels are walking around with little chance of even throwing a football, running, or something we take for granted. Maybe we don't pay so much attention to being like, “I have to be so happy, the fact that I’m able to move fluently. I got all my toes, my legs, and my arms.”
“I'm healthy. I can do what I can do.”
Instead of wasting time complaining about whatever, “This didn't go the way I wanted it to.” It's human.
Instead of wasting time complaining about whatever or things not going the way you wanted them to, just give thanks for what you have.
It is a stigma in our business because guys complain about the hotel. I was doing it when I walked in here. It was like, “This place sucks.”
Why not? You're like, “What the fuck is this, bro?” When you get down and out, give thanks for what you got.
It helps me keep not getting down and out. It's inspiring to see somebody like that. Going back to the military and first responders, a big shout out to people like your wife. We need those people so badly. It's something that I don't think I could do. I could maybe do military, law enforcement, or something, but that's a whole another level. We have a mutual friend that we went to dinner with and his wife's NYPD and about to retire after 30-some years. NYPD service through 9/11 and everything.
That's a big sacrifice. My hat goes off to those people too. That's cool because that's something with our industry. We get to meet some of those people too. A lot of the operators and stuff that I know come from shows that I’ve done. They're personal protection. I don't know how many city police officers I’ve chopped it up with hanging out at the arena because there's nothing better to do.
Paramedics, first responders, whatever. There's always a good amount of people that are servicing around us. It's awesome to run into them and learn the way they do things and shoot the shit with them.
Be able to have or visualize that perspective of like, “Maybe what I got going on isn't so bad.” That totally broke my train of thought. We were talking about being humble. Going back to your career, now that I know a little bit about your background, that's super awesome. That's why I love doing this because I love learning about people and hearing their stories. I want to do a deep dive into some of the places you've been and some of the shit that you've done because I have so many stories that sometimes I forget where I’ve been and what I’ve done.
We've moved so much, especially when you're on tours and stuff. I find myself sometimes, I don't even know what city I'm in. Where exactly are we?
I always remember. You have to Sharpie on your hotel room keys when you're on a tour or something. Sometimes you don't even see the city because you're so busy working. They're the highlights of your career. I have a bucket list. You've been in this just as long as I have, but I want to hear about a gig that I would've gladly gone on with you. You got to do a gig at the pyramids of Egypt with the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
That was pretty cool. I was doing the Australian leg with Red Hot Chili Peppers and on the itinerary was Egypt. I didn't know where we were going to be when we went there. There are not too many venues in Egypt where you go and you play shows at. Not that I’ve heard of.
Was this what you were out with Stageco? Were you building a stadium rig?
It was a production rigging for Red Hot Chili Peppers. I do a little bit of Peppers and also Florence + the Machine. A good buddy of mine, Gabe, is a top worker and dedicated rigger. He's a super cool guy and he's given me great opportunities. That was one of them. He put me on that cool tour. We went to a bunch of great places. Tasmania was awesome too.
In Egypt, we were 200 feet away from the pyramids and we put this steel structure together in a pyramid shape and in the background, the backdrop was the Egyptian pyramids. It was sick. I’ll never forget, security was on camels. We had securities in the far taking care of the area that we were in. They were on camels with RPGs and fucking full-out on AK-47s. That was our security over there.
I’ve never done a gig in Egypt. I’ve been in all over the world. I’ve been in some crazy spots. To me, that's like you're going to 1 of the 7 Wonders of the World. For me, it is the wonder of the world. That's the cool thing about some of those bands that get it. Some of those bands get it. They're like, “You know what would be awesome? If we did a gig at the fucking pyramids.”
They did it because they rock and they want to be there but my understanding is that what they went there to show the world that you could do shows there. The reason why is because that offers an opportunity for these guys to provide for themselves.
We're bringing people.
They're bringing jobs over there so that's something that they wanted to put on the map. Maybe sometime down the line, Egypt will be on everyone's itinerary, or maybe not, depending on the way governments are and get along. I don't get into that stuff, but that was my understanding of why we went there to play a show.
Egypt will be on everyone's itinerary, depending on how the governments get along. They want to play shows and bring jobs over there.
It's wild. That's cool. Shout out to those guys.
That’s humanitarian stuff going on right there.
I’ve worked for them a couple of times and I don't have any bad things to say about any of those guys. They're incredible musicians.
Those guys rock. Their crowd loves them. They give them what they want, the energy, everything. They're a top-notch band.
It might be one of the only times I was starstruck. I don't get starstruck very often, but I was rolling down the hallway the first time I ran into going in between catering, and then you're headed towards their dressing room.
I have a super cool story on the Chili Peppers. I can't remember where we were. I want to say maybe Sydney and the Chili Peppers pull up. The show's set up. They're coming in for rehearsals. Chad pulls up in his motorcycle and he parks it outside. He didn't come into the loading dock or whatever. He comes in. He passes me and as he's passing me, it starts raining outside. He looks around and then he looks at me. He's like, “Do you have a motorcycle license endorsement?” I'm like, “Is this guy talking to me? What the fuck? Chad's asking me if I have a motorcycle license.” I'm like, “I do. I have my motorcycle endorsement.” He tosses me the key to his bike and he is like, “Bring my bike in.”
That was so rad. I go to this bike. I got the key and I'm trying to find where to put the key in. I'm looking at the bike. I'm looking around and I’m like, “Shit, I’m looking stupid right now. I got Chad’s keys and I can’t even start this bike.” The stage manager comes up and he is like, “It's a key fob. You don't have to put that key in.” You just put it in your pocket, press that clutch, and hit that start button. I got to pull Chad's bike into the building. He tosses me the key like that. That was pretty cool.
Throughout this industry, I learned fast that I'm not there for the artist so I don't get into asking for anything. I'm there for my job. That's what I'm there for. It was cool to interact with Chad and have him like, “What’s up? What’s going on?” Shoot shit and then, “Get my bike in here. Get my keys.” That was cool. Other than that, I’m like heads in the game. I'm here to build a show. Plenty of times, we cross paths with artists and everything and we're there to do a job.
A lot of times for your gig or the side of the industry that you fell into, your little moment to get some rest is when the show's going on.
That's your time to go out to the bus and catch a nap. In a lot of the tours I did, I didn't take a nap. I always took camera operations. Sometimes you get first dibs when you're on tour and they ask, “Do you want to run a camera for the show for some extra money?” That was awesome. I'd do my load in and be done in a couple of hours. I could still get to chill on the bus a little bit. For the show, I would come out and run a little cam. I got that through having experience running the spotlight. It’s just different buttons. That was pretty cool to get that little shot to make some extra bucks. Get full productivity of that time.
Going back to doing this gig in Egypt, were you on tour or was this like a one-off?
That was a tour. We were all through Australia. We went to New Zealand and then Tasmania and the last place we touched was Cairo, Egypt.
What is it like rolling into Cairo? I’ve rolled into some third-world country.
It's different. I’ll tell you what, you don't want to do is roll in there with your wife because they have no respect for women over there. I'm not sure that that's ever going to change. That’s not somewhere that I would take my family.
There are some Middle Eastern countries that are like that too.
It's tough. That’s not how we get down. If you're not married, you're not even allowed to stay in the same room. If it’s not your wife, your friend has to get her own room. You get your own room.
There are some countries where you can get arrested for having premarital sex.
Rolling in, we had a badass security, German team. These dudes were like rocks, like solid muscle-moving machines with fully automatic weapons under these coats. It was intimidating.
That's how I’ve gotten to know a lot of special operations guys and stuff.
We were moving in vans. We stayed in an all-inclusive resort. Everyone was told to stay in the resort. Anything you needed, food, drinks, music, and nightlife was in there. Every time we went to the gig and back, we had escorts with us, fully trained, high-level security.
Were they good dudes?
They were super cool. There was no talk pretty much. We saw those guys for maybe 40 minutes a day and it was a 20-minute drive there and a 20-minute drive back. It was quick. There was a lobby call, they showed up. You got in multiple cars, get in the van, get to where you're going, and get out there.
Those guys are operating. Their heads were on a swivel. It's next level when you roll a security like that.
I'm not sure that's ever happened anywhere else. It was just there. From my experience in the business, it was Egypt that we had that strong. Other than that, we've been around the world and never had anyone escort me like that with fucking fully automatic weapons under their coats.
That’s when we know you're in a bad spot.
I'm like, “Holy shit, it's like that?”
It's like, “Damn, did I sign up for this? I'm getting the same paycheck.”
I'm so happy to be there, though. I couldn't believe it. Still, to this day, like, “Was I really part of a team that put a show together in Cairo, 100 feet away from pyramids?”
Did you guys get to experience any of Egypt?
We didn't go out. We were there for maybe 6 or 7 days, maybe a week or so.
Did you get to go tour the pyramids or anything like that?
We took off on our break and then downtime when the stage is built and you’re focusing on your rehearsals or whatever. That's like our downtime to go explore where we're at. The guys doing programming, everything. Thank you for doing what you do. Keep us employed. It was a good time there.
I’ve seen some of your photos from that. You showed me one time when we were chilling backstage, killing some time.
Maybe I could give you some and you could maybe post them up or something.
We'll put them over the video or something. That'd be super rad. I'm sure everybody would like to see that. There are some pretty badass photos of the stage, in front of it, and you working. That's cool.
Thanks to everyone that made that possible and thanks for the opportunity. That's awesome. Thanks for having me on the team. That was epic. Thanks to everyone that had me on the team.
That’s such a humble dude. This is why I love you. It's fucking good people.
I feel so fucking lucky. You've worked for my shot. I'd like to believe that people give me an opportunity because they could believe in me. I could do the job. Thank you, guys.
People will give you opportunities if they believe in you.
That's incredible. You've worked with Red Hot Chili Peppers and a bunch of people. The list could go on and on.
I can't say the coolest. They're all dope and they're all cool in their own way. U2 360°, that was a badass tour.
With Jake Berry?
Stageco building this massive spider stage. They had four of these stages.
Is that when it was in the round in the stadium?
Yes, the massive claw. One would be playing, one would be getting dismantled, and one would be traveling. It’s to make sure that Bono and his team kept moving. We crushed so many cities around the world. That was badass. Working with these Belgians, it was so cool. I say Belgians, but on that team, there were Portuguese, Russians, Belgians, and Americans. It was a fucking dream team.
That's what's wild about this business. There are so many different cultures that are in it. You get to experience so many different cultures and you have to work with people from that local.
Now that you say that, there’s a language barrier sometimes. You work with everyone who's from a different place. Luckily, a lot of them know English because I don't know their language. How the fuck am I going to communicate? I would always give them props for that. Thanks for learning our language, so at least we could communicate, because you're Portuguese, you're Belgian, you're Dutch, and you're Russian. How the fuck do I talk to you guys?
It's crazy. You start using primitive sign languages and shit.
Also, eye contact like, “Are you fucking ready? I'm ready. Let's go.” That's what I used in Egypt. It was eye contact. We were building a sound scaff tower. I don't even know what the fuck it was. It wasn't scaff. I don't know if it was bamboo sticks. I don't know what we used, but this sandstorm rushes in and I'm up there with like 2 or 3 locals and we all have our heads wrapped and everything. This is sandblasting your face. These guys are looking at me like we're going down.
I'm like, “We just got a couple of hours left to get this up. Please don't go down.” It was like an eye contact thing. They looked at me like, “If you're going to stay, I'm going to stay, but we're fucked here, just so you know. You're not from around here. I'm a fucking local. We're in a bad spot.” They stayed with me and got the job done and it was so cool. Much props to everyone that worked for us from that local crew.
You're experiencing those cultures, some of the food, and making some of these friendships with somebody for a day.
You become friends in a day when you do this. I got mad respect for all of these locals that we worked with. I truly appreciate them showing up because, without them, we can't do this. We're there to give them the information to make sure that they do it as safely as possible to keep them out of harm's way to build these shows for these artists so that way they can do what they do. These guys show up and they're ready for us in every city. It's a blessing to have them.
It's cool because you get immersed a little bit in their cultures. When you're in Verona, Italy and dudes are showing up to push road cases around in three-piece suits and dress shoes and shit, you're like, “This is how they come to work.” They're sweating their asses off in these three-piece suits. They're not put together all that well. They're not like perfectly tailored or whatever. It's not like you're going down to Wall Street. These dudes have sweat stains on these suits. They're a little dirty, but it's pretty cool. Learning some of the different languages, I know some Portuguese now. It's all from touring.
I know how to say things, maybe like 2 or 3 different things.
I’ve learned all the bad stuff.
I always wanted to learn please and thank you. When they see that, they're like, “At least he's making an effort. Maybe this guy is not a douchebag, He's here. He fucking gets it,” and you're in their house. Why obligate them to speak your language?
I always tried to pick out the cool guy because there's always a cool guy in the group. He's always the alpha. “I lead the rest of the team.” I would go grab an interpreter or whatever and I was like, “I wanted to know the slang. That's where I picked up all these words in each country. Do you say that first thing in the morning?
Yeah.
You got instant friends.
You got to smile.
Have a good time because if you're a miserable fuck all day and you're working eighteen hours, nobody wants to work with you.
A good attitude gets you far not just in this business but anywhere and a smile.
A good attitude will get you far and your business anywhere.
It takes you a long way. That's what got me this hotel room we're sitting in. This was an upgrade.
You had U2. What are the others?
A lot of rock and roll bands. I did a lot of cool stuff with AC/DC in Brazil and Argentina.
Were you on the tour where they had that big-ass train on the stage?
A stuntman with a big hat and red horns. We were doing that and we're in Argentina. The show's built and we're pulling up. It's show day and we're looking outside of the stadium. There were thousands of people out there ready to rock and roll. I'm not sure that anyone even had shoes on because they knew that they were coming out of their shoes.
You just don't show up with them.
Just don't show up. It's like they're ready to have a great time, let loose, and rock. They're climbing light poles. These dudes are 50 to 60 feet in the air swinging t-shirts. What I thought was the funniest is no one's even telling them to get down.
That's where they did the big DVD shoot. It's on YouTube. You can go and watch it. Honestly, from a production standpoint, that stage was amazing to have a big ass train. They weren't young during this.
On stage, they're twenty years old.
It’s such an incredible show.
Offstage, they walk with a limp. On stage, they get this energy and they feed off the crowd and their crowd has energy. You go to an AC/DC rock show in Argentina. You're fucking rocking. In the States, they rock. They party.
There's that soccer mentality where they take it to the next level. There are countries where football or soccer is big. I’ll never forget being in Hamburg, Germany and there was this one spot when you had a day off after touring for ten years. This is where you went to blow off some steam. If you had a day off, it was like this one stretch and I forget the name of the street, the village, the district, or whatever it was.
You would always go down there and it was bar row. It was bar after bar and Germans were having a good time, the Hofbräuhaus, and big steins of beer. It was always a good time. They know how to party. I went down there one time and A riot broke out. Every window in the bar was busted out. There were bottles in the streets. There were chairs. There was blood. I asked one of the locals, I'm like, “What the fuck?” They're like, “There's a football game tonight.”
Those hooligans don't play that shit. They meet each other in the street and go at it. That's crazy. It's hardcore shit over there.
Some of the bands that I’ve gone to, like when I was out with the Killers, set attendance records in Mexico City. It’s a huge stadium. We didn't do that in the States. They would sell out American Airlines or something like that.
We can't fit what they could fit in those soccer stadiums.
You saw the Canelo fight. It had 55,000 people on and they were packed all the way up. They even sold some seats in the ring before and then those people had to leave for the fight. I’ve never seen so many people in a boxing room. It's next level and they don't adhere to the fire marshal codes. It's like, “How many people can we get in here?” I’ve seen them. Mexico City was one of them and a couple of spots in Africa where they weld the barricade together and they have to cut it apart at the end of the show. I'm sure they had to be in Argentina for that show because they have to have to in a rock band like AC/DC.
They rock, but there's something about it. I don't know. They get it. It’s what they do.
There's not a lot of diversity. I feel like America, although we say it's not diverse, we're split up, segregated, and all that stuff, this is a melting pot. There are people from all over the world. When you grow up in a culture, there's a sense of pride. There are Americans that are super proud about being Irish, Cubana, Native American, or whatever it is, but there are not like 100,000 of them in one spot. In some of these other spots, you go to Chile, Brazil, or something like that, and those people show up.
They're ready to rock. Over here, it’s not that level of energy.
We're not that old. That's a cultural part. If you're in Brazil or something and like there are dudes doing Capoeira and shit, that goes thousands of years ago. Our things are like beer and NASCAR or some shit. It's not that cool, to me anyways. There are some American cultures. Don't get me wrong. I fucking love where we live and I'm super proud. You get your balls busted a little bit too.
Some of the English guys that I’ve been on tour with are like, “Americans aren't loved all over the world,” like we think we are. When they start telling you like, “We got park benches older than your country,” it's like, “Come on, bro.” It puts it in perspective. You get over to some of those spots, be in Germany, and see some of those churches.
It's beautiful. Their architecture there is amazing.
It's crazy. They date back to the 1300s or something like that or some of those castles in Edinburgh.
That's amazing that we get to travel like that with work. You're seeing all these places and then not only seeing them but you're getting paid to do so. I know a lot of people that are probably millionaires that can't see the places that we've seen or get the opportunity to because they're always working. Our job is traveling. It gives you opportunities to go check out all these places. Sometimes you get a day off here and there.
When your job requires traveling, you have the opportunity to check out all these different places.
There are some of the perks that come along with that. Going to Verona, specifically, the Arena was the very first arena in the world. Have you done a gig there?
No. That sounds epic.
I would go and visit there even if I wasn't doing a show. That’s why every other basketball arena, everything is called an arena. I don't know if it's older than the Colosseum or not. I don't have somebody here to file-check, but it's from that era, like Roman gladiators. You go down in the basement and the original bathrooms are there and they're like these pits. You go another layer deeper if you get the tour from the venue guy.
It's historic and all that stuff, but you go down. There are fucking lion cages and jail cells. You think about like everything that happened where you're doing that show and what we've seen in Hollywood, the dude coming out and rubbing his hands in the dirt from Gladiator. It happened there and you can feel it. It’s almost like it's haunted, but I don't know that I believe in the paranormal.
The history's so strong.
You think about all the blood that ran in the streets there. It's pretty wild. The people there know it too. They have little traditions that they do there. There is the only place I’ve ever seen. This is dating myself a little bit, but lighting has come a long way now. There are robotic lights and all this shit. Back in the day, they used to have these audience blinder lights, especially in rock and roll. They'll blind the crowd. These people got so crazy that they all have come in unison. It's like a thing. You bring a piece of aluminum foil with you. When they throw those on, you throw them back.
It turns into a big ass fucking light because you're like in a bowl. It might as well be a giant head. I'm sure you can see it from space. It's next level. Being there and seeing that is cool and then being in some of these spots where people don't get to go a lot, to go into the Heat locker room or something like that and take a shower or whatever it is.
You get to see some cool spots.
Those are some of the perks. I'm not going to mention what I’ve done to some Zambonis in some other spots or some rival Denver teams. You might find a little something here or there.
I left you a gift.
At least a Bronco sticker or something. When you're rolling into Raiders into Oakland or something like that, you got to represent. Going to all these places and being on some of these tours, what have you been able to take away? If somebody was aspiring to do your job, what advice would you give them?
Be dedicated. Work hard. Make sure when you put your name, you show up. Make sure you understand what a team is. That'll help you how to work together, how to listen to each other, and how to be open to making adjustments and making things work better.
Improvise on the fly. Make a decision.
Safety is always first. Always keep that in mind. Make sure everybody gets home the way they got there. That's important. I’ve witnessed not some bad stuff.
Have you ever witnessed a death?
No, absolutely not.
Have you ever had any friends?
I'm so grateful for that because I’ve seen broken bones, a couple of toes, arms, a broken finger, and stuff like that. We deal with a lot of heavy machinery. We push around heavy boxes.
Some of these stages that they roll are hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Also, the Army that's pushing it. Can you imagine all the force that's behind that stage when you got 50 or 75 guys pushing it? If that runs over your foot, you're probably going to lose a couple of toes. Your toe and your foot might come off. These wheels cut.
Not to mention, especially guys working on the roof. I’ve had numerous stuff come out of the roof.
If you're on the roof, my advice to you is to stay clipped in. I’ve heard of a couple of arenas with accidents and stuff. They're arenas that provide fall protection. There's no reason that you shouldn't be. For all those up riggers out there, I know your skills are high. You're confident. You're a good climber. Don't take things for granted. Stay tagged in. Stay clipped in. We got this for a reason. Get your harness on, get your clip in and 100% tie off all the time, and make your passes right. That way, you go home to your families. One bad slip and you're gone.
Live Event Production Rigger: Get your harness on, get your clip in, and 100% tie off all the time and make your passes right. That way, you go home to your families.
I know a few people I’ve lost. One thing that's plaguing our industry a little bit and maybe more on the touring side is suicide's a big deal. You're on that ultimate high. You're riding that wave. I talked about this in some other episodes and stuff, but it's something I like to shed light on if you're having problems. In our industry, you're not supposed to have any problems. You're supposed to show up. You're supposed to go up. Especially during the pandemic, it was crazy. I know a few people.
Times are tough. Our business completely went away.
It's something that I never thought would stop. Even when we went through the recession in 2008, everybody was like, “I don't know if people are going to do this.”
It’s tough.
The industry picked up because people would spend money on concert tickets.
Enjoy yourself.
You get to come out of their moment for a minute.
Leave the moment for a little, smile, and have a good time. It’s awesome that we get to put things together and make people smile and are happy like that. All the magic goes to talents. Thanks to them for making the music. Thanks to them for doing their rehearsal and then coming up with these great songs and projects and stuff that gives us the opportunity to put it together.
You're sharing special moments with special people. I'm so fortunate. I got to go to a bare-knuckle boxing match with some friends and hell. Through the show, I’ve gotten to know a bunch of fighters and they were all there and people I hadn't met. There were some iconic people and new people I met.
You showed me the video. Conor McGregor's out there. He’s a beast.
That dude's crazy.
Shout out to him.
We were watching some of his videos. He's the iconic two-time champ.
“I do what the fuck I want.”
Being around some of those guys, but going as a spectator and being there in the moment, that's something I’ll never forget. I grew up going to punk rock shows, but that's something that I take for granted now. I won't go to a concert unless I have passes and my kids want to go. I'm not going with the punters. I can't do it. That's the best way I know how to experience it.
I go to shows now and stuff and I took my little girls to Disney on Ice. I don't even find myself looking at the show. I'm like looking at the rig and things and I'm like, “How does that work? That's cool right there.” I'm always focused on something else. My girl's like, “What are you looking at?” I'm like, “I'm looking over there. That light isn't focused. Look at that right there.”
That's funny because I’ll find myself doing the same thing, mainly because I'm enamored by it.
That's the details.
We’re paying attention to the details.
You want to look at the show you hung and make sure everything's nice and clean.
It’s hard to enjoy something after you've done a gig at the pyramids because how jacked are the bands then? There are different levels to it too.
It's always exciting. Even the little shows are as cool. It's putting something together that brings people together and everyone's having a good time. People are laughing and enjoying it and on to the next show.
The hat goes off to the people that buy tickets and go to concerts because that's what employs you and me and all that stuff.
The fans and everyone out there. That's why I like the bands. The band's making this great music, these great things that bring these people. They'll attract them, bring them over, and entertain them. Put on a good show for them.
Even if it's a fight or something too, it's a pretty cool industry. I’ve been so fortunate. It's what bought me a house. It's why my kids have clothes on their backs.
It's given me a great opportunity to provide for myself and my family. Not a Doctor's degree or anything. I got my high school diploma, went to college for a couple of years, and that's it. I got all my experience in the field. I started when I was eighteen.
That would be something that I would take away if anybody's younger reading this and wants to get into it. There are some bullshit schools out there. Unless you're going to be on the nerd side of things, if you want to be a programmer or whatever, you can invest in all those.
I know programmers that are self-taught too. They're badass. A lot of this is experience on the field. The more shows you do, the more situations you run into, the more solutions you come up with. It evolves you into being better in this business.
The more shows you do, the more situations you run into, and the more solutions you come up with. It evolves you into being better in your business.
You learn how to cut those little corners.
That is why I'm so happy to have the opportunity to work with a team back home in Miami. We didn't stop working. We work every day. We're doing 3, 4, or 5 shows a week. If it's not a hotel ballroom, it's an arena. It’s an amphitheater. It's a lot of different places and different shows.
Spots like Madison Square Garden or something don’t stop.
Of course not. Those guys are badass over there. That's a good team over there. They know what they're doing. They execute the job to the fullest. They're a good team.
They'll bust your balls when you come in. You're going to have a good time or you're going to hate your day. It depends on how thick your skin is.
If you don't know what you're doing, don't go there acting like you do, which is what helped me. One of my first tours was with Carlos Vives, Colombian. What saved me was I was the local lead in American Airlines and the leads from Madison Square Gardens would come through. Not only the leads, they had a top team that went around doing big award shows and they would come to American Airlines a lot. It gave me the opportunity to meet them.
I get on this tour and Madison Square Garden is on my itinerary. My boss is already a production manager and stage manager. Everybody's already telling us, “When you go over there, have your shit right because these guys are not trying to waste time. They're going to fucking eat you alive if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.”
Especially if they don't recognize your face.
I show up and I want to say my buddy was good to me. I treated him well in my house and I showed up and I'm like, “This is the show. What the fuck do I do here to be on the good side with you guys?” He gave me the ropes. He's like, “Mark your floor out and give us some time. If we got any questions, we're going to come to you. Other than that, pretty much give us space because we take care of shit around here. You tell us exactly what you need and that's what we're going to do.”
Straight up, I was like, “I’m not too experienced with this rig right now. This is the first time that we're putting it up. There's a couple of kinks, a couple of cables that we need to work out, some stuff that we might move when we hang.” He's like, “No problem.” They're easygoing with me. Thank you, guys. Thank you all at the Madison Square Garden for hanging that show and not hanging me. They're a good squad out there.
Some of my finest moments have been in that building. I laughed until I cried there. I’ll put some one-liners.
They're professional ball-busters.
I was doing a gig in Central Park and there was this younger video guy that was building a wall or something and he didn't understand the culture. He was a very micromanaging type of person and that doesn't go over well there.
That's not the building where it's your way or the highway because you're going to be on that highway pretty quickly.
One of my favorite lines from this guy who walked away from him. He was like, “I'm not listening to this kid anymore.” He had probably twenty years on this kid. The kid was micromanaging him. He went and took a coffee break. He comes back. The guy starts laying to him. He is like, “Where’d you go? You disappeared on me.” He's all, “I didn’t. I just magically appeared.” It's funny. That's that type of attitude and it goes much deeper than that. I love watching them eat other people up. Not myself.
I’ve seen some get chewed up.
Luckily, I’ve never been on that side of it.
You set your show up and it's like lights out. It’s a dark time. Nobody can work. We're there. The show’s up. This dude is running a piece of fiber cable. They rattled him. They find the tour also for working during that time because it was warned. They go through all departments and they give you the, “You're not ready? That's fine. We'll come back.” When you say you're 100% ready, that's it. They turn the lights off and it's a dark time.
I never understood that at first, but that's a safety thing.
No one's working like that by themselves. You got the whole team there. You got eyes there. You got people to back you up. If you miss something, safety should be first and foremost. It’s the most important thing that we do because we work with a lot of people that is their first day or their third day. You want to look out for these people. They're out there trying to make a living and provide for themselves. Maybe they put their finger in the wrong spot, but because they're not aware, they don't know. This is their third show.
It's not your fault. I want to say as a department lead, it's up to you to look out for these pinch points. Look out for these areas where maybe you've seen other people get hurt or where your experience tells you that people can get hurt. Be there and try to back them up. “Watch your step. Watch where you put your hands. Don't put your hands there.” I’ve been doing this for many years, pretty much traveling. You know how many times I'm sure you have told somebody, “Move your hand,” and one minute later, something happens. He could've easily lost a couple of fingers there. I pay attention to detail with who I'm working with.
This might sound like bullshit or not. I get like a sixth sense.
You develop that working in this.
When I was younger, not so much. Now even to the point where like if I'm standing there talking to somebody, which happens. You get stopped. The client wants to talk to you or whatever. I always look up and see what's above me to see if anybody's working. This is fucked up, but I’ll stand in open areas. If something were to fall, I know that I don't have to run out of this corner or whatever. I always have an exit plan. Some of these shows are wall-to-wall. You're not going to run away.
They only get bigger and bigger. When I first started as an up rigger, our shows were 50 or 60 points. Seventy points was a show. Now, it's like 150-plus or 125. It’s easy. Your average show is 100 to 130 points.
For anybody reading this, I apologize for explaining this if you're a rigger or somebody in the industry. We got a lot of people that read these for this reason to learn a little bit or whatever. Points are a hoist.
It’s the motors that pick the systems up. These are all chains.
Each one of them has to be fastened to some structural integrity of the building.
It's usually all engineered and then the lead rigger man needs to be dialed in with engineering and where they hang these things and where they're putting these loads at.
They're working with the building, making sure that the roofs can handle it.
They're making sure that what they're hanging is safe. You got kids and family that come to these shows.
Some of these shows that you're doing now are like 600-plus points or something. Aren't you leaving to go do something crazy like that?
Yes. It's a pretty cool show that we're going to do for Ford. It's like a big arch video wall so it's a ground structure. It’s not so much of points and motors and stuff. It’s going to be building a lot of steel. A lot of ballasts are being used to counterweight what we're hanging.
To get into the technical side of rigging and you being a house guy and building bridles, there's like some serious math that goes on behind that. There's a formula. This is not shit that they teach you in high school. This is shit that they teach you in college. I didn't go to college. I don't think that you did.
I did about a year in community college. Not that I was paying attention.
They weren't teaching you these math equations to make this shit work.
No. I learned all this on the field with great people that passed it down to me. I went and did homework and did some research, but a lot of this comes from the previous head rigger. I would show up early. My calls say 8:00 AM. I'd be there at 7:00 or 6:30 AM because that's when the floor is getting marked out. I'd show up early and get with the lead rigger and then learn the height of the building, learn the span of the beams, learn how to get these formulas to get in my points to land where they need to land, and make sure I apply it properly and safely.
If you think about it, it’s amazing.
I learned by working with great people that knew what they were doing and it's passed down. You get under their wing. They take you under their wing.
You learn by working with great people who know what they’re doing.
you worked on Super Bowl Halftime. Rigging something like that, that has all this crazy TAIT automation involved with it and hanging the PA over the crowd. Now you're not hanging something at 100 feet where you have to clip in a chain, a motor, or something like that. You're talking 300 feet in some of these stadiums.
Shout out to TAIT. It’s a good company. There are a bunch of top dogs in there. Their engineering and designs are top-notch. It's a great company to work with. They were a great team for us to work with. They come up with great ideas on how to install these platforms. All of that was automation.
There are so many incredible companies out there. TAIT is one of them.
They're hustling, doing cool shit, and putting stuff together.
Is that the next level?
For me, automation is always the coolest shit. That's wild because it’s moving.
It's hanging and moving at the same time.
It's fucking super cool when you see something flying and floating and the rest of the crowd is wondering, “How the fuck is this happening?” You got a good computer software company that you're running with and you're doing your automation. You're doing your thing and it's fucking looking badass.
The whole next level of having an actual performer on it. That is the most nerve-wracking thing I’ve had to deal with. When you have Lady Gaga coming out of the roof and she has to land on a 2x2 platform, that's got to be perfectly placed.
You better nail that cue.
Whether you're the guy that's got the platform or the guy that's buckling or hard performance harness or whatever, holy shit. Better hope everything works.
A lot of planning goes into this thing, rehearsals, tweaking and fixing, and cue to cue with the artists and all departments that are making this move happen. This is pretty fucking cool.
This has been super fun. I want to be respectful of your time. We got some stuff to do. We're going to have some fun, maybe going to catch a basketball game or hang out for a minute.
Thank you.
I'm super glad that I'm down this way and I get to hang out with you. It's cool that we recorded this in your home state.
Maybe we get to do one in your home state.
I'd love to have you in the studio. It's next level. It's one thing to set up on the road and you got to figure out how to do it and where to do it. The sound's not always perfect.
You did a good job here. You got a good mobile setup.
I enjoy spending this time. I’ll do one with you anytime. Anytime you want to do this again or whatever, let's do it. It won't all be about work next time.
Thanks for having me on.
This has been awesome. I appreciate you. I appreciate your time and I’ll always love you. If you ever need anything, I'm here.
Same here. Let's keep kicking ass.
Have you got any websites or companies you want to plug in?
I don't.
Is there anything like Instagram or anything like that? You're flying under the radar.
Just shout out to everybody that's out there reading this and checking out different things. Shout out to everybody that's doing this business. Shout out to the people that come to these shows. Thanks, everyone, for coming together so that way we can all continue to do cool things together.
It's honestly an honor. I’ve had a lot of people on. I’ve had some heavy hitters on.
You got some cool episodes. I’ve checked out a couple.
This means a lot to me, having my personal friends on and sharing what they do. What you've done is badass. I love having you, guys. It means a lot to me, so I appreciate you doing this for me.
Thanks, everyone, for reading. Cheers, guys. See you.