#106 Chris Pelle - Complete Canine Training
Chris Pelle - CEO of Complete Canine Training, Veteran and K9 training expert. Chris fell in love with training dogs with his first dog, Kira, and it went from there. Now the CEO of Colorado’s top dog training facility with 20+ employees, 1000+ clients, and 1500+ dogs trained. Complete Canine Training is dedicated to its clients and their dogs. They opened their doors in 2015 and have been training dogs ever since. From family pets to police and military K9s, their goal is to provide the best dog training in Colorado. Complete Canine Training has helped over 1000 families with their dogs and has worked with over 20 different police departments to do their small part in helping to keep our communities safe. Complete Canine Training prides itself on staying up to date on the best dog training practices and techniques. They attend conferences annually and all of their trainers go through a rigorous evaluation and training process. Tune in as Chris Pelle joins Bobby Marshall in studio to discuss dogs, Police K9, Colorado, life lessons, law enforcement, dog training, dog behavior, tracking, mountain life, and so much more.
Please subscribe or like us on social media platforms for updates on shows, events, and episode drops.
www.themountainsidepodcast.com
www.completecaninetraining.com
Sponsor Links:
Mountain Side listeners receive 10% off all Jocko Fuel products! Use Code TMS10 to save.
Mountain Side listeners use Discount code TMS to receive 10% off ONNIT products!
Mountain Side listeners receive 10% off Origin & Jocko Fuel products! Use Code TMS10 to save.
—
Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
Chris Pelle - Complete Canine Training
Our guest for this episode is my friend Chris Pelle. He's the Owner and Operator of Complete Canine Training, training a multitude of working dogs for police departments, government agencies, and military and private owners. His specialties in K9 training include training, detection, observation, patrol, and tracking dogs. This is truly Chris's passion. He has built an amazing business out of it. He's super knowledgeable. I enjoyed having him in for this episode. It was a great conversation. I hope you enjoy it.
Chris, welcome.
Thanks.
I'm stoked to have you here. It has been a long time coming. I talked to you a while ago. Doug connected us. I met Doug outside of a Discount Tire. He had a Malinois with him or something. He's a cool ass dude.
Doug is awesome. His dog is awesome. Harley is a sweetheart when Doug is not around, at least to me. She's awesome.
She's a super protector.
She's great. Every dog is different. I have some dogs I can be around when they are around their owners but Harley is protective of Doug a lot. When I first met them, I couldn't get within 10 feet of him without her coming at me. That was his issue. We saw each other at a Pet Expo. That's why he stopped by. He is like, "You do protection work. My dog is super protective. Can we harness that?"
I've got similar issues. I've got a Blue Heeler. They are a protective breed, to begin with. Those Malinois are the same. When I was talking to Doug, he had Harley with him. That's what spurred the conversation. There was a 12-foot gap between us. It was a conversation from a distance. That's for sure.
She's way better now. The first time I met him, nobody could be near his dog. I can't be near his dog because she bites me all the time. She's got that association but if you take Doug out of the picture, I can play with that dog with no problems. When he first came to me, he couldn't walk through Home Depot with his dog. She was on edge all the time. Her eyes were wide, "Everybody is a threat." We worked a lot on getting her to focus and pay attention to him. He calls me. He's like, "I walked through Home Depot, and people got within 2 feet." I'm like, "That’s awesome. That's everything you have been working at. It's not me. It's you doing all the work at home."
I have a couple of friends that are former operators and have Malinois as companion pets but they need a job constantly. They need some interaction, engagement, or something to focus on, whether it's at home or if you are out and about.
They need something. There are a lot of people who get like, "I saw this dog on TV. It's a police dog. It's great." When they call me, they are like, "I've got too many dogs. I don't know what to do." I'm like, "Is it a Mal?" That can be as simple as good obedience. That's a job for a dog. They have to mentally exert themselves to be good dogs or you don't give them anything like, "If I don't have a job, then I have no purpose."
Their job is going to be ripping the couch to shreds.
They are going to make their purpose. They are like, "I don't have a job. I like to bite shit. There's a couch. Sweet." They do what they want to do. There's no purpose, then you call me.
They always say dogs resemble their owners or whatever that cliché saying is but it's true in people too. If they don't have a purpose or some goal-driven thing, you could be the guy at happy hour working the 9:00 to 5:00 the same old.
You have to have some motivation in life. It's the same for dogs as it is for people. If you don't have the motivation to do anything, what are you going to do? Whatever is easiest, "I have to make the bills happen." That's easy stuff. Almost everybody can do that but there's no driving purpose. You are never going to go anywhere.
I have to have something, whether it's through photography, bow hunting, shooting my bow, not even the hunting part, the show, and everything. I'm constantly moving.
I'm the same way. My wife always tells me, "You need to slow down." I'm like, "I don't know how." It's either go or stop. There's no slowdown for me.
That's me. I want to watch the back of my eyelids on my pillow if I'm going to not be creating something or doing something. I'm not the guy to sit down. I will sit down with my kid and watch a football game but to sit down and watch a movie unless it's a family event is not my thing. My brain goes too fast sometimes. You are getting back from a trip. Where were you at?
I have been traveling since October 3rd, 2022.
You have been gone that long. Thanks for coming in. Your wife must be thrilled with me. Thank you. Chelsea, if you are reading this. I appreciate you loaning Chris to me. We will make it short and sweet.
I was in Mexico. I did a buy trip down there. We flew down to Mexico. I've got a good vendor down there. We were testing dogs for a couple of days. I flew back. I got in at noonish or so. I was home on Saturday. I'm catching up on house stuff and saying hi to the wife. Sunday morning, I left for New Mexico. We are doing a K9 seminar with Carlsbad Police Department down there. We got them all squared away and then did a certification to end the seminar with them.
I'm so pumped to talk to you. I can't wait to talk to you about a bunch of dog stuff. I'm going to dive into this. Do you primarily work with police, law enforcement, military, and those type of dogs, whether it's privately or for departments? What do you do exactly at Complete Canine Training?
We deal with everything. When I say Complete Canine Training, it is complete. We deal with pet dogs. If you have problems with your Blue Heeler, call me. Let's get them into a training program.
I'm going to call you if you have time.
We work with any type of dog. If you've got an issue, we are going to do our best to help you with that, whether you've got a brand new puppy and need some obedience so he is not tearing up the house and that type of stuff or you've got a brand new puppy, and you don't know what to do. You have no idea. Your dog is great but you are like, "I want a good dog."
How about a twenty-year-old Beagle-Chihuahua mix that's your wife's dog?
We are pushing that. Old dogs can't learn new tricks. Every dog is trainable at every age but they are like people. Old habits die hard. Our longest program is a five-week aggression rehabilitation program. That might not even be rehabilitation by the end of it. It might be an aggression management program. That's our longest program. We don't like taking people's dogs for a super extended time because you miss them. They are part of the family.
Every dog is trainable at every age. They are just like people. Old habits die hard.
Our number one program is probably our three-week behavior modification. He's got some bad behaviors. We've got some issues that we need to get resolved. He's barking at other dogs. Maybe he pulls on a leash hard toward other dogs or whatever it might be. If that dog is three years old, I'm trying to undo three years of bad habits in three weeks. We work miracles but those 3 weeks don't undo all those 3 years prior.
We reset expectations, new rules, boundaries, and things like that but it's on the owners after that initial training program to follow through and do what we tell them to do. Over time, maybe if you keep doing what we tell you to for the next 6 months, those behaviors that showed up all the time at 3 years are showing up once every 2 weeks instead of every single day. As time progresses, if you keep following the program and doing your job as the owner, then those behaviors show up once every six months or they don't show up.
Do you find the most common behavioral issues with K9s or dogs are because of human neglect and not enough attention? I feel that way. As I was saying with that breed specifically, she's my daughter's dog. I make it a point to take her and do something every day because she's a better dog. You get some energy out.
You are giving her a task. It's the other way around. Dogs aren't bad because we don't give them enough attention. We don't give them the right attention. I don't care what breed it is. It could be a Chihuahua, an English Bulldog or a Malinois. If you don't interact, set rules and boundaries, and treat them like a dog, and you treat them like a human, you are going to have issues. A lot of the behavior issues that we see come from owners treating their dogs like they are their kids or not even kids but babies. For your five-year-old kid, you have rules and boundaries. You are taking care of your two-year-old kid. You give them everything that they need.
You are making sure they don't fall off a ledge or something.
If they cry, then you run to them. People take that mentality for their dogs. The dog is seven years old. They still treat it like it's a puppy, "I have to do everything for you," and all this. That creates bad behaviors because there are no strict rules in place. There are no boundaries. There's no discipline. You don't discipline a two-year-old.
Light is going off in my head because the behavioral issues with my daughter's dog are not mine. It's them. They have a hard time walking her and that stuff.
We let our dogs get away with murder. If a dog jumps up on the table, we are like, "Get down. It's okay. Stop that." What incentivizes the dog to not jump on the table again if I just push their feet off the table? That's like, "Don't get a cookie," and then you start reaching for the cookie jar when I turn my head. You are like, "He's going to look away after he tells me no. There's no consequence," but if I slap your hand, you are like, "Maybe I'm not going to grab that cookie."
That's as simple as it is. It's saying, "If you do X behavior and it's good behavior, you are going to get rewarded. If you do X behavior and it's bad behavior, there's going to be a negative consequence." Everything in life has consequences. Every animal on the planet learns the same way through consequences. We are afraid to correct our dogs and tell them that they are bad. We are afraid to say, "You are not allowed to do that. Here's the consequence for it."
Everything in life has consequence. Every animal on the planet learns the exact same way through consequence.
That's the issue with society and dog owners. They don't want to punish their dogs for bad behaviors but they will beat their kids. I've seen it in a take-home class where the whole family comes in. The kids are running around and kicking the walls. I'm like, "Get your kids under control." The parents are like, "Know that off." They are yelling at their kids, grabbing them by the arm, and putting them in the chair, "Stay here. Don't move." Their dog does the same thing. They are like, "Come on, buddy. Stop that. Knock it off. It's okay." They are coddling their dogs.
Is it that Cesar Millan mentality or something? I don't want to knock him. What do you think of all these celebrity dog trainers?
Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer, uses the alpha dog mentality. Everything is a pack mentality and being the tough dog. We take a similar but very different approach. I want you to be a leader for your dog but I want you to lead like you would want to be led. If your boss came into your office, and every time you messed up a report, and he grabbed your head and smacked your head on the desk, you would be like, "Fuck this guy. I don't want to work for him." It creates a fear-based relationship.
A lot of what Cesar does is create that fear-based relationship where the dog is afraid that they are going to do something wrong, so they are going to be punished, whereas the way that we operate is we set the guidelines for the dog and give them the opportunity to make the right or wrong decision. I train the dog, "Sit means sit. Sit means put your butt on the ground. When I say sit, you have two choices. You are either going to sit or not." If the dog sits, I pay him, "Good job. Here's your paycheck, buddy. Here's a treat." If the dog doesn't sit, I correct it. I'm like, "Sit. That's the boundary. It means to sit." I give him a leash pop, he puts his butt on the ground, and then I pay him anyway.
That's a good point to bring up. How are you correcting these dogs? Are you backhanding him?
There's an acronym.
It's not funny but I was making a joke there. People, take it easy. We will get some hate over that.
People do it. They still have the old, "Smack them on the nose with the newspaper," mentality. Would you want to work for your boss to be smacked with newspaper? At the end of the day, we need to be leaders and the boss of our dogs but a good boss and a good leader.
I see people all the time trying to force their dogs into positions too, "Lay down." They will grab their front legs.
That's a compulsion. If your boss said, "Write a check," grabbed your hand, and made you write that check, that's not fun. Think about it in the way that we would want to be treated. It's very similar. I don't want to anthropomorphize dogs, which is giving them human characteristics because they are not. That's a big problem. People are like, "It's my baby." It's a dog. Treat them like a dog. They don't have the same cognitive abilities as we do. They can't process the same way. We say, "Here are the rules and boundaries." We stay consistent, firm, and fair with that. You will be amazed. Your dog will be like, "These are the rules. I know how to get paid and not get paid. I like getting paid."
Most of the dogs that I've had, and maybe it's just me, want to please you. Maybe I've had too many Heelers in life because they constantly are like, "Am I doing a good job?"
Are they coming up to you because they are like, "I did this thing," and you are not giving them anything? Let me ask you a question. Are they working for them? Are they working for you?
They are working for them. They are like, "Throw my ball. Where are we going?"
"Throw my ball. Give me some pets." It's a big misconception. It's one of my favorite things to talk about.
That's why I got you in here.
I could talk about dogs forever and dog behavior. Dogs are funny because everybody is like, "He loves pleasing me and working for me. He does a good thing. He comes up to me." I'm like, "What do you do when he comes up to you?" They say, "I pet him." I say, "Do you think that petting feels good?" He's like, "Yeah." "Why do you think your dog comes up to you? It feels good when you pet him. Is he working for you? Is he working for him?" People are like, "I never thought about that."
I'm like, "If you die in your house and lay there dead for three weeks, let's see if your dog is still working for you. You are going to be dog food eventually." Your dog works for themselves because we give them a paycheck. That paycheck is pets and affection, "Good boy." For the K9s, it's a ball on a rope. It's biting the bad guy. Those are all rewards to the dog. It makes them feel good. They don't do it because there's nothing at the end of it like you don't go to work because you want to make your boss happy. You go to work for a paycheck. Their paycheck is different.
That makes a lot of sense. Now that I think about it, anytime that my dog comes up to me with those puppy dog eyes, I at least acknowledge her. I might not always pet her but I at least acknowledge her.
If it makes them feel good, they are going to do it again. That's the basics of dog training. If it feels good, the dog is more likely to do it again. Treats feel good and taste good. It satisfies a need. Pets feel good. It satisfies the need of the dog for affection. If it feels good for a dog, they are more likely to do that behavior again. If it feels bad for the dog, they are less likely to do it. If a dog jumps on the table and I pop him with a leash, then he goes, "That didn't feel good." He's less likely to pop on the table again.
When you say pop with a leash, is that a short jerk? How do you get into that to where you are doing it correctly?
We can go back to the newspaper swatting. It is a correction. It doesn't communicate effectively. If they are doing the newspaper or smacking the dog, it damages their relationship rather than improves it. The dogs don't understand it well. We use pinch collars and eCollars to communicate with our dogs. I say communicate, not correct, because a correction is when a dog is doing bad behavior but I can communicate with a leash and a collar without it being a correction as well.
Let's preface this first. The level of correction matches the level of bad behavior. If I have a dog and I say, "Sit," and the dog blows me off, I'm not going to slam on that leash and be like, "Sit." I'm going to get his attention because that's most of the time what's happening. The dog is staring off into space. You are like, "Pay attention." I'm going to get his attention. It's going to be a light correction. He's going to feel it but it's going to be like jingling a necklace on somebody's neck, "What's going on?"
You are tapping him on the shoulder.
If a dog comes up the leash at me or I have an aggressive dog or a K9 who thought something was unfair, that's a hard no, "You don't get to come up the leash at me. I'm the one in charge here." I do have to assert that I'm in control. That's going to be a heck of a lot bigger correction.
That's where you get into your Cesar.
With the mentality, yes, but not the techniques.
I've seen him pick up a dog and hold it down on its side for a minute or something.
It's the alpha roll, "I'm over the top of you." Dogs will do that to each other. My wife got her Pittie. The dog was four months old when we first picked her up. She has no idea what's going on in life but my Shepherd was probably almost a year at that point. It was his house. We let him out in the garage together. He pinned down and held his mouth open and over the top of her.
It was like, "I'm the one in charge here. This is what's going to happen." Six years later, they are best friends. It set the tone, "I'm the one in charge. That's it." Dogs will do that. They do it to each other because it communicates, "I'm not a dog." Cesar is not a dog. It communicates the same thing but it's not as effective as it's portrayed on his show, in my opinion. If you watch his show, he gets bit all the time.
I've only seen a couple of episodes. My kids love that show.
I'm not knocking everything he does. He has gotten results. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been on TV. It's not the way that the majority of the dog training community will approach anything. It's on one end of the spectrum. I would rather be more center-line and balanced. He gets bitten a lot. I know that there has been some lawsuit stuff that happened because of the way he trains dogs. I don't expect my owners to do the same things I'm going to do. If I have an aggressive dog, I have been bitten a lot. I've got scars.
You are in the bite suit.
Ideally, I'm in the bite suit. I had a K9 go through my hand. I have been bit. It sucks getting bit. I don't want to get bit. I can avoid being bit even with an aggressive dog who hates my guts. I've never done anything wrong with this dog. He's like, "I don't like your face." I can avoid being bit by not pushing those boundaries and starting to teach new boundaries.
I had a dog that hated my face for no reason. It had never met me before. This is the dog's issue. He hates other people. The dog is barking and growling all this crazy nonsense. The first thing I did was I took a step toward the dog. The dog is like, "What happened? Nobody has ever come towards me when I'm barking, snarling, and everything like that."
I'm not going to put the dog in a corner, grab him, and put him down. That's going to amplify the problem but I'm going to start teaching, "You bark and grow at me. That works with everybody else but it doesn't work with me." The dog is like, "What's next?" They will do 1 of 2 things. They will amp up their aggression and be like, "I'm not big and scary enough, so I have to go after them." They will start lunging, and I still don't move. The dog is like, "That doesn't work."
Eventually, over time, it might be an hour-long session. All I do is stand in the room, making my way toward the dog. By the end of that hour, the dog is like, "Nothing I'm doing is working." He finally calms down and sits down. I walk out of the room. I'm like, "The session is over." I've got the one behavior that I wanted. I wanted the dog to be calm. I mark it by the threat, which is me walking out.
That brings up another question. I have only been bitten by two dogs. Both times, I was in an open space. They were dogs off-leash. One time, I was jogging, which I do run. It was a light jog. I came up to this lady. I didn't even know she had her dog off in the trees or something. I was like, "Good morning. Excuse me." Next thing I know, I've got this dog on the back of my leg nipping at me. If you have an aggressive dog coming at you, what is the best thing that you can do as a normal person or if they are coming at you and your kid?
That is a broad-spectrum answer.
There are a lot of variables.
I have been rushed by dogs off leash too. Here's the best thing you can do that has worked for me. Most dogs aren't truly human-aggressive. I guarantee you that dog probably wouldn't have bit you if you had faced him. He bit you on the back of the leg.
Most dogs aren't truly human aggressive. They're creatures of opportunity. A dog wouldn't bite you if he face him.
I didn't even know he was there. In all fairness, I had earbuds in. I didn't hear anything coming.
Most dogs are creatures of opportunity. For example, I'm walking towards that dog. One thing I never do is I never turn my back on the dog. As soon as I turn my back to the dog, he goes after me because I'm not a threat if he's got my back. If I'm watching him and staring him down, there's confrontation and things like that but is it a confrontation I want to take on? Some dogs, yeah. Most dogs, no. If I turn my back, they are like, "I get whatever I want and bite you wherever. You are not going to see it coming."
If you turn and run, you are more likely to get bit.
Dogs are creatures of prey. They chase and bite prey. If you become an object that mimics prey running away, you are going to probably get bit.
That's another issue I've seen here. We had a neighbor of ours. Their dog got out or something chasing deer. It ended up killing one of the deer, not by physically taking it down and biting it. The deer ran into a fence. I want to make that clear. The dogs will chase shit.
That's a natural instinct for dogs. Why do you think it's so easy to play fetch? They run after the ball. All we have to do is teach them to bring it back. They are naturally going to chase after the ball. They are creatures of prey. They want to chase and bite things. They are prey animals. If you mimic prey, you are more likely to get bit but not if you stand your ground and get all big.
As you would do with a bear, lion or something.
Stand on your ground and say, "Let's fucking go. Do you want to do it?" I've watched dogs be like, "Nevermind. I'm out of here," because I stand on my ground and stomp my foot. Stand your ground and not run. Here's a disclaimer on this. It's not going to work for every dog. You have to judge.
It's probably not going to work on the police dogs you train.
It won't work on my dogs. It won't work on every dog but it will work on the majority of dogs. Most dogs are not truly human-aggressive. It has been bred out over years. The Egyptians were using dogs. I don't know how long ago.
It's crazy all the different stuff that they have bred dog breeds and how those genes and that mental capacity stick with them for X amount of years. It's insane. All the different breeds have had some purpose for humans until the last hundred years. Now, they are pets.
I would say the last 50, probably or maybe 60. Every dog, at some point, was bred for a purpose.
They are working dogs.
Every dog breed, in my opinion, has two dog breeds within that breed. German Shepherds are the easiest example because most people know that you have your pet German Shepherds that are lazy-ish. They are good family dogs. They are mellow and calm.
It's the old classic.
You have your K9 Shepherds. They are spooky, high-energy, and high-drive. They are both German Shepherds but there are 2 breeds within that 1 breed. It's the same for a lot of dogs.
It's for Heelers too. The actual breeder that we got our Heeler from has working dogs. She didn't even want to sell me the dogs. She was like, "These are cow dogs." I drove up to Wyoming. I was like, "That's what I want."
That's a good breeder. There are two different breeds within every breed. Pet lines are what we call them in the industry. There's a pet line and a working line. You can find a Malinois that will be a good family dog, I promise you. It's going to be a little bit high-energy. You are going to need to do stuff with that dog but it will be a good family dog. If you go and find the Malinois, I will get for K9s and put them in a home. Good luck. Even with all the training management in the world, your home is going to get fucked up.
What was Malinois originally bred for?
They are herding dogs like Malinois, German Shepherds, and Dutch Shepherds. Malinois are technically part of the Belgian Shepherd group, which includes Dutch Shepherds, Belgian Malinois, and Tervurens. We call them Tervs for short.
What are the black brindle-looking ones?
Those are Dutch Shepherds.
Those are so cool looking.
They are all in the Belgian Shepherd group. They are all herding dogs. It's very similar to German Shepherds when they are first bred. It was for flock protection and things like that.
I didn't ever put that two together. It's in the freaking name.
They are not called Malinois Shepherds. They are called Belgian Malinois. Everybody is like, "What's a Malinois?" It doesn't connect because they don't know that they are in a group of Belgian Shepherds.
Typically, you are working with Malinois, Shepherds, and those working dogs. When you are working with family dogs or if somebody came to you and said, "Chris, I want to get a good family dog," what breed would you suggest?
The breed that I would suggest should be the one that fits your lifestyle.
It is key.
They make a dog that fits your lifestyle. I say that with the utmost dead certainty. If you are a couch potato, get an English Bulldog. That dog is perfect for you. It's not going to need a whole lot of exercise. They can't do a whole lot of exercise.
Get a dog that fits your lifestyle. If you are a couch potato, get an English bulldog. If you always hike, get an active breed like a husky or a shepherd. A lab or a retriever is a good choice if you want a somewhat active dog but also like to hang out at the house.
"Where are the cheeseburgers?"
"Let's lay on the couch and hang out together." If you hike fourteeners all the time, get an active breed. Get a Malinois, a Husky or a Shepherd. If you are like, "We are somewhat active but also we hang out at the house a lot," a Lab is a good choice for you or a Retriever.
It kills me too. You have to think about regionally a little bit. I'm in Vegas a lot for what I do outside the show. I will see people there with Huskies. They are dying. They are not meant to be there.
Dogs are great at acclimating but at the same time. Your Husky is a dual-coat dog. It is meant to sleep out in the snow.
In the Arctic, not Colorado snow. There's a big difference.
One of my trainers has two Huskies. If it's snowing, she can't get them inside. She's like, "They would rather be outside than inside with me. I want to keep them inside because I want my dogs inside with me," but the dogs are like, "I'm going to stay outside." I can leave my Shepherd outside all year long, and he would be fine. He would be like, "I don't need to be inside." When he comes inside, he's like, "Let me back out, please."
That's the same with my little Heeler. She gets cold because she's an Australian dog. She's living in a cold climate. We don't keep her out very long.
I have a little Frenchie.
They are great. They are the coolest dogs.
She's like a potato on crack. I love it. She will go outside but only outside when it's cold and snowy. She's only outside for ten minutes at a time. If it's too hot, it's the same thing. She's only outside for a little bit. It has to be 65, and then she can be outside all day long. On either end of those spectrums, because she can't regulate her body temperature as well, she's coming inside.
I love that breed though. They are the coolest. My brother-in-law has one. It's the coolest dog, Bergman. It's a pain in the ass, though too. It smells horrible. The worst dog gas in the world comes from Bergman but they are a great breed. I'm going to dive into my selfish stuff here. I'm going to start asking you about my dog. We have a family dog, Tala. She's a Blue Heeler. She's female. She's two years old. She's not a bad dog. We had a bad vet experience. It was during the pandemic.
She was great. I never had any aggression toward people at all. I dropped her off at the vet. She didn't want to go in. I forced her and handed her off. When I got her back, I was fucking lividly pissed because she was bleeding out of the side of her mouth. I don't know if they ended up hitting her in the process but she was still a puppy. When do you get them shots, at 6 or 8 months or something like that?
She had a super bad experience. If adult males are wearing a mask, we have gotten her over all that pretty much but she's silent. There's no warning. I've had to put a vest on her that says, "Do not pet," because she gives people no warning. If they are going without asking if they go to reach in over her head at all, she will snap at them. She has bitten one lady.
That's a great opportunity for people to learn.
One thing I do is I always ask, "Can I pet your dog?" People need to reframe a little bit too because that's one thing that bugs the shit out of me. I can't walk her down Main Street here without nine people asking me if they can pet her. She's got a fucking vest on that says, "Do not pet." You can't pet my dog. I'm sorry.
We take our dogs to Lowe's, PetSmart, and all those places to get him exposure training. One time, we were at a park, and some lady straight, walked right up to me. Luckily, my Shepherd is social. She walked straight up to me and started petting my dog. I was like, "You asked nothing." I reached out and started petting her kid. She's like, "What are you doing?" I was like, "What the fuck are you doing? Is this your dog?" She's like, "Why are you touching my kid?" I was like, "Why are you touching my dog?"
People automatically say, "Hey, cutie," or whatever it is.
“Leave me and my dog. I didn't approach you. If I wanted my dog to say hi to you, I would bring him over. If you want your kid to say hi to me, you are going to bring him over to me. You are not entitled to touch my dog. I'm not entitled to touch your kid. Why do you think it's okay for you to touch my dog?” She stopped petting my dog. She was livid. She was like, "I'm going to call the cops." I'm like, "Go for it. Whatever."
"I train all their dogs too."
"They know me on a first-name basis. They will send a unit right over real quick." I had a lady one time tell me, "If you don't want your dog to be petted, why do you take it out in public?" I say, "It's my fucking dog. I’m going to take my dog wherever I want. As long as they are under control on a leash. I'm meeting all of the stipulations to have my dog out in public. Why do you think you can pet him? He looks good. He's a beautiful German Shepherd but that doesn't mean you can come up and pet him."
That's the thing with Tala. She looks sweet, and she is sweet unless you are going to her space or she thinks that she's being threatened or threatening me or one of the kids.
I'm sweet too, until you invade my space without my permission. People don't get it. They think that they are entitled to pet your dog or whoever the dog is.
There's also this misconception that all dogs should be friendly, and if not, they need to be put down.
They are put on a muzzle and kept under lock and key.
A lot of people do that with their dogs too. If they have behavior issues, they will not take them out.
That's okay.
That's why Tala is not here.
That's responsible dog ownership to a degree. If you have a problem and ignore it, that's irresponsible. It's not going to go away but if you have a problem and you are managing it effectively, that's being a responsible dog owner. If you have an aggressive dog, you are trying to take him out on walks all the time, and they are lunging and barking at everybody constantly, that's irresponsible as well. Manage your dog appropriately for your dog.
Canine Training: If you have a pet and ignore it, that's irresponsible. It's not just going to go away. If you manage a problem effectively, that's being a responsible dog owner.
I have a dog that stays at my house 24/7 all the time because she's not dog friendly. I'm a trainer. I've done six years with this dog. I've worked with this dog. She cannot be around any other dog except for the rest of my pack. If she is, it's going to be a fight. I know this. I've worked on it over and over again. It's a genetic code in her that got flipped on when she was a young pup. She's like, "Other dogs that aren't these other five are not allowed near me." My dog stays at home.
This also brings up another question. There are a ton of people that go to rescues to get dogs, which is a great thing. What's the best way to pick and choose without taking the dog home or something like that? Are there any tendencies that you can look for? If they are aggressive, they are going to show that pretty quickly.
Yes and no. Kennel environments are different from home environments. What we see in a home environment can be completely different and vice versa. If I were to select a dog from the pound, I would look for a calm demeanor, no outward aggression towards other dogs or people, and confidence. Aggression typically comes from a lack of confidence in dogs.
The dog with the tail between his legs or the old cliché thing is not a confident dog in whatever situation.
I want to see a more confident dog. It's a personal preference. I personally can rehab a dog that's not confident to be confident. I have the skills and toolset to do that. Most regular owners don't. They are like, "He looks so scared. I'm going to take him home and love him until he is better." That doesn't necessarily work because you end up coddling it and making it worse most of the time. If I want a good selection of a dog, I want a dog that's like, "I'm here. I'm available. Choose me," not the dog that's in the corner shaking because I walked up. It's freaking out because there are people around. I don't want that dog because there are issues there.
You've got a rougher road ahead of you, then.
It's not to say that the dog can't be fixed per se but it's going to take a lot more work than a dog that's like, "What's going on? Choose me." Outward aggression is a red flag for any dog. That's what I would look for generally speaking. I want to see a dog that's confident in his shadow and not scared of it.
That's good advice. Back to my dog, the next thing is that she needs a job and a purpose. I personally would like to have her trained to track because I'm a bow hunter. I always thought it would be awesome. It is legal through the state. You have to obtain a secondary license or some K9 license but you can't use them to find a big game. It depends on what you are hunting like elk and deer. Let's say you shoot one, and you can't find her. That's the worst. That's a bow hunter's nightmare to put her on a trail or more importantly, to even help the community.
We have had some search and rescue people in here. I'm constantly in the backcountry with my kids. It would be awesome. She's typically with us. A lot of times, we are dispersed camping. I'm not the guy to go to a campsite or something like that. Sometimes it's from a backpack. If something were to happen to one of the kids or I couldn't find them or maybe they were lost, it gives her a purpose. At two years old, is that something that I could start training?
Yeah.
One thing I've noticed when we are playing fetch and stuff is that I will throw the ball or duck into the tall grass. Sometimes she has a hard time finding it. I'm not quite sure that she has a nose.
She's got the nose. I could teach a pug to track, not a long distance but I could teach it to track maybe 10 to 15 feet at a time.
Those are the sniffly dogs with pushed-up noses. One of my friends had one of those. It was always snotting all over you and stuff. Those are a funny breed too.
Every dog has the ability to air scent, track, and detect odors. They are better than us. Every single dog on the planet has a better nose than we do. At two years old, your dog would have no problem picking it up. You would have to start the progression appropriately. You have to decide what you want to track.
It's specific.
To a degree. We detect cocaine.
We used to track it, but now, we detect it.
For tracking, you have to think. You shoot a deer or an elk. It takes off, and you've got a blood trail. You are tracking elk. Blood tracking is what you are doing. That's fairly simple because you get some elk blood, deer blood or both and teach them to follow that trail. When you are tracking human odor, it's a little bit more complicated because you and I both have different odors. Every human on the planet smells different.
This brings up not specifically for dogs but stuff when we have had the search and rescue people in to talk about some of the common things that can help. Let's say you have a lost kid. Don't dress them in camouflage jackets and stuff. Put them in something bright. Have a plan. Number one is to have a plan. If they do get lost, stay put and whatever those cliché things are.
You can get a ton of information from AlpineRescueTeam.org. They are our local search and rescue but one of the things they said, and I started doing this, was to take an extra sock that your kids wore out of the dirty laundry and put it in your backpack. It weighs nothing. If you are going to be that dispersed or that far out, have something that we can get a scent off of if we get a K9 that's available.
We don't do search and rescue. I'm not going to pretend that I know a whole lot about search and rescue because it's a different style of tracking. It's a different purpose. Police K9 tracking is, "Find the guy and bite the guy. Tell me where he is at." In search and rescue, one of the things they do that we don't do is teach bounding where the dog will find them and then bound back to the handler back and forth.
They keep going back and forth. That's a whole other thing.
That's one way that they do it.
I didn't even think about that.
It's different. Those dogs have been taught to do article sensing. They discriminate against that article. In your campground, you have been walking around all day long and doing things like that for 3 or 4 days. With police K9s, usually, we are tracking within twenty minutes after we lose a suspect or sooner. We don't need to discriminate against police K9 tactics. We set up a cordon around a building and then ran the K9 on the outside of that cordon because none of our officers had been there.
The last thing that is left here is going to be that suspect. The methodology and the training are different. We don't do scent discrimination in the same way that search and rescue does but dogs discriminate scent. If I give them a scent and tell them to find it, and that's how I initially start my tracking, then they are going to be able to do that. For us, that's not something that we do.
Dogs discriminate scent. If you give them a scent and tell them to find it, they're going to be able to do that.
It's AlpineRescueTeam.org. They have a ton of information there. They have these little cards that I'm now seeing on here that you can fill out and throw on your dashboard. If you are parked at a remote trailhead or something, they said that's one of the most helpful things. Throw that on your dashboard because then they know if the vehicle has been there for five days. It says on there what day you plan to come back and that sort of thing. There are super cool people. They are all volunteer-based. There are badass people out there helping other people. It's cool. They are good people.
For my dog, Tala, it would be awesome to have her track blood but that's a secondary thing. I'm a pretty confident and ethical hunter with my bow. I practice all year long. I hunt with my bow specifically because I know how to control that. I believe in the ethics behind that. I'm a pretty good shot. I set a limit on myself, "I can take this shot at 40 yards. If it's not feeling right, I'm going to let my drawdown."
I'm methodical about it. Typically, this season, my buck was my latest animal. He went 100 yards. That's good. There's blood everywhere. It's easy to find. If I were to get her to track, it would be humans, my kids, or something. Maybe it's not a full-on search and rescue but is that something that's a possibility to get her to track humans?
Yeah. I've done that for a couple of clients already where we taught the dog to track because they have kids. We taught one of my old clients from years ago, John and Josie, to track so that they could play in the backyard. He's got his grandkids. He was on a 7-acre property or something like that. The kids would run off. He would be like, "It's time for dinner."
They should be allowed to. That's what I was able to do as a kid. People shelter or helicopter-parents their kids too much. That's a whole other subject.
We have taught his dog to track. He started playing hide and seek with the dog and the kids. We taught her to track some distance. He would call me up and be like, "I found the kids again." I'm like, "What do you mean? Did they disappear?" He's like, "I took Josie outside, unclipped her, and said track. She went and tracked the kids. Everywhere the kids had been, I knew exactly what they were up to. They are playing on the playground. They walked over to this part of the yard. They walked all the way to the back fence."
I'm going to implement it when my daughters hit high school. Maybe we will put some of those attack voice commands in there.
You can teach your dogs to track. Two years old is not that old. We taught dogs to track that are older. We have taught dogs that are younger.
I'm going to set that up with you then, for sure. We will talk after the show because that's something I want to do for her, me, and them.
On my YouTube, I have a way to get started with tracking. It's an initial walkthrough.
You have some awesome tips. I was checking out your Instagram. I got a tip from your Instagram. When we first started talking after I met Doug, I went to Instagram. I was checking out some reels or short videos. It was one on engagement. It helped me so much with her because when I do go out in public, I always have a ball and treats with her leash or something that she wants from me. If I'm going into Home Depot or the pet store, I'm carrying that with me. It's in my pocket. It keeps her engaged.
It's a cheat code for dogs. It's @CompleteK9Training_Co.
What's your YouTube channel?
It's still one of those long weird URLs but it's linked on our Instagram and our website. There's a video that shows you how to start tracking on a hard surface. For us, we always start on a hard surface because it's easier than a soft surface. A hard surface is an asphalt. A soft surface is a grass.
The scent will stay a little bit longer.
It's the opposite. On your hard surface, the scent dissipates faster because there's a breeze.
It evaporates.
It dissipates. Grass inherently has humidity. Even if it's a dry summer day, the grass is still damper than asphalt. In asphalt, the odor dissipates faster. It will spread out quickly. It's harder for the dogs to track on asphalt, whereas in the grass, you have your human skin rafts that fall off and that we are shedding that they can pick up on but also your crushing vegetation. Crushed vegetation gets off its odor as well.
We always start on hard and then work our way to soft because it's hard versus easy. We want our dogs to be good at the hardest thing possible. When we move them over to grass or something, they are like, "This is cake." By the time we are done with their tracking program, most of our dogs are tracking a mile-plus with multiple surface changes going from asphalt to concrete, gravel, and a grass field for 100 yards, and then back to concrete. We are sitting inside a tree 20 feet in the air. They are like, "He's up there."
With tracking, we always start on hard and work our way to soft. It's hard versus easy. We want our dogs to be good at the hardest possible and then move them over to grass or something where they're like, “This is cake.”
Check that out. It's CompleteCanineTraining.com. There are links to YouTube and Instagram. Your website is awesome too. You can schedule stuff. It's well done. You did a good job putting that together.
Thank you. I built that one all by myself from start to finish.
That's your second job. Let's dive into your background. That's interesting too. If you have the time, let's go way back all the way to the beginning.
I was in the military. I did some time in the infantry in the Army. That was to get schooling and stuff out of the way. I didn't want to put my parents in debt. They were like, "Don't go into the Army. We will pay for your schooling."
Were you handling dogs in the military?
No. I didn't even see any dogs in the military. Right as I was getting ready to get out, though, I got my first dog, Kira. She was a German Shepherd. I've always loved German Shepherds. I was like, "I want a German Shepherd." I went to the breeder and was like, "This one loves me. I'm going to pick it," not knowing anything. I was like, "I'm going to make it a protection dog." That was wildly off base.
I start training this dog. I have no freaking idea what I'm doing. I got a dog. I was walking it on a leash eight weeks old down the street. This is probably day five. I have no idea what I'm doing. I have a crate, a water bowl, and a food bowl. Other than that, I'm lost in the sauce, not doing any research or anything like that either. I'm like, "I'm going to train this dog."
That's what I've done.
I was walking this dog. This guy on my block was like, "Bring that little dog over here." I was like, "Who the fuck are you?" He's got slicked-back hair. He's a grease ball. I'm like, "Whatever." I walk over to him, "He's not a threat. He's awkward and weird." I started talking to him a little bit. He's like, "What are you planning on doing with your dog?" I was like, "I'm going to make her a personal protection dog." He's like, "I've got six in my backyard." I was like, "You don't." I was taken aback. I look at the side of his house. There's a Shepherd sitting there staring at me. I'm like, "Maybe he does."
I started mentoring under him and learned the ropes. You don't start personal protection stuff with an eight-week-old puppy. I'm not even going to get into it. You can start at three weeks old but that's foundational stuff. There's his methodology. I'm learning the way he does things. He's an old-school trainer. He's an older dude. He's very knowledgeable. He taught me a lot.
I can't ever take that away from him. He didn't teach me all the right things per se but he went through the training progression. He linked me up with some guys in Denver who did Schutzhund IPO, IGP, or whatever it's called now, which is a dog sport. I started mentoring everybody I could and falling in love with the process.
What is that sport?
Schutzhund is probably best known as Schutzhund. They have changed the name a couple of times almost every other year but it is originally the German police dog test. There are three aspects to it. There's tracking, patrol work or apprehension, and then obedience.
It's in competition form or something.
It was the original police dog test. It's a competition now. I'm not even in the sports world but it's convoluted in nonsense. It's skill-based training.
It's like the tactical shooting world a little bit.
At the end of the day, it's skill-based training. I was learning how to teach my dog to track a little bit, bite, and things like that. At the end of the day, that first dog Kira didn't have what it takes to be a personal protection dog. She wasn't interested in the work. She was a pet-line German Shepherd, which I had no idea about. I didn't know it existed. She wasn't cut out for the work but throughout that process, I fell in love with watching her develop and go from this little puppy that knew nothing to this dog that was super obedient.
I say, "Heel," and she would run from anywhere in the yard and get right next to me. I took my time. I was spending an hour a day with her training every single day after work. I fell in love with it. I have always been an entrepreneur. At the time, I was working for an internet marketing agency. I was learning web development. I was learning how to market. When I quit, I was managing 80-plus clients and probably over $2 million a year in marketing dollars for other people.
I expected you to walk in with a dog. I'm a little disappointed you didn't.
I thought about it.
I love all dogs.
I was picking him up from the kennel because he has to board at the kennel when I leave. He's that dog. My wife and he don't get along. I was like, "I'm already going to be late."
We are pretty laid-back here.
He would be bouncing around here. We would be knocking mics everywhere.
That happened to me. We went down to San Diego and recorded with my buddy, Andy, down there at his knife shop. Here's a shout-out to Andy at Half Face Blades. He's got a Malinois, Crow. The dog knocked over a mic. He's the coolest dog ever, though. The dog was biting rocks or something. They had to replace his canines with titanium ones. He looks like the Terminator evil dog but he's the nicest fucking dog in the world. All he wants to do is play with his toys. He sleeps on his back. Do all Malinois do that? He sleeps on his back like humans. It's so weird.
I've got eight working Mals in the kennels. They all do it but I also have Mals that have never slept on their back a day in their life.
You have a French Bulldog. You've got a diverse crowd going on there.
I've got six.
That makes sense.
It's the wife. I've got six dogs. I've got a Frenchie and a Chiweenie.
What is that?
It's a Chihuahua-Dachshund mix. I've got a Dutch Shepherd, a Malinois, and a German Shepherd.
How do you walk the dogs?
We don't.
That's a good foundation. I have been talking with those dudes. They are super cool. They hooked Andy up with Crow and Eric Telly. They are down out of Florida. It's Warriors Choice Foundation.
I haven't heard about them.
They might be good people for you to network with or something.
I've got a couple of police dog washouts I'm looking for homes for.
I will connect you because I have been trying to get the Warriors Choice guys in here. They are good and reputable. Beto doesn't do anything with anybody. There are so many nonprofits out there. You have to vet them. This is a legitimately good one that I can vouch for.
I have been looking to donate these dogs because I don't need them in my kennels. They are going to go to a waste sitting in the kennels. They are going to spin up all the time. A kennel environment is not a good environment for a dog for its life. I have been looking and trying to get these dogs donated.
You sell dogs too. You take them as a puppy and train them for whatever somebody would want to pick up. You are getting something out of the gate.
I would say procure and sell. We don't do a whole lot of breeding. The one litter of puppies we had was an accident. We tried to breed our female to champion bloodlines 3 or 4 times. She goes into heat, and then my police dog washout reject gets some. We are like, "You chose the bum. It's always like that. You choose the loser instead of the champion over here." We had a litter of puppies. Some of them work. We got some in our program but we washed some of them. They don't have what it takes. We have to find homes for them. I'm trying to find someplace to donate them so that they can be used.
It's something like a family environment-type thing but not K9 work.
They are not qualified for doing bite sports or police K9 work but they are qualified to be good. They could be service dogs.
Honestly, that's what you need if you need an emotional support dog of some sort. You want that run.
They would be the pet line. They would be the pet side even though it was a litter of all the same dogs. There are some that are more suited for pet life and some that are more suited for working life.
Some dogs are more suited for pet life, and some are more suited for working.
Chris, let's wrap this up. Your wife is probably expecting you at home. I appreciate your time in getting us in here. Before we let you go, it's CompleteCanineTraining.com. Check them out. Follow them on Instagram. There are some great dog tips on there. I'm going to go to your YouTube and start with the tracking. I'm going to talk to you about Tala and get her down to you for sure because she needs something to do. It would be something fun. The whole family could have fun training her and doing that.
Tracking is a whole family activity.
My kids are into Geocaching. Have you ever heard of this bullshit?
Yeah.
It would give us something else to do that's a little bit more interactive and keep them engaged with the dog. Have you got anything coming up down at Complete? Do you do any events?
We are busy training dogs all day. We have a DOC handler course coming up. We have a four-week handler course. We are teaching new handlers how to handle detection dogs. That's all of November and into December 2022. Event-wise, I do a lot of K9 events. I put on schools for decoys and teach people how to get bit. We were supposed to have one in November 2022 but the DOC contract supersedes that. That's getting pushed to 2023. I'm going to leave that open.
We do problem-solving stuff for the pet world. We don't do a whole lot of events because people don't show up. They are not necessarily super interested in learning how to better their dogs. We have some clients that are but they do the extra one-on-one classes and things like that. We are looking to start some more of that in 2023 and be more community-involved where we can be like, "We are doing a four-hour class on how to communicate to your dog. It's on a Saturday. Come in. It's $25 or something like that." We've got into this new facility. We were getting our feet under us and figured out.
That's good too. That honestly might be one of the best ways to keep dogs out of shelters. It's learning how to handle and train them instead of giving up.
In a two-hour class, I can teach you basic dog training fundamentals. That will cover the very basics of dogs.
You have a ton of stuff online too that's basic for free.
We've got some stuff. I released an online course. I probably need to make the videos public but I didn't complete the course. I will get you to week three, and then you are on your own. You have to call me. It gives you the foundation and engagement. I have a video that talks about creating engagement with your dog. I have those things out there.
That's available on the website. I'm going to get it.
It was an online course when COVID hit. I was like, "I have to do online dog training." Now, I don't because nobody followed through. I was like, "You must bring your dog to me if you want to train."
I would rather come down and hang out with you. I've enjoyed having you in. We want to have you back. You are busy but let us know when you have time or if another trainer wants to come in or something. It's a good subject matter. It's something I'm genuinely curious about. I love what you are doing down there. Here's a shout-out to all the first responders that are out there working too. I'm a big supporter of them. I'm grateful that we have people like that. This was an awesome time.
Thanks for having me on. It has been a blast.
We will let you get home.
The wife is waiting. She's like, "Are you done yet? Get home now." I'm like, "Chill."
We are done. You can go home. We will see you, everybody. Thanks for reading.
—
Thanks for reading. If you haven't had a chance to do this already, please take a moment. Follow, like, subscribe or rate on whatever platform you catch the show on. If you would like some more information on upcoming episodes, safety tips, access to all of our affiliates, and all the badass discounts that we get here, check out TheMountainSidePodcast.com.
Important Links
YouTube - Complete Canine Training
@CompleteK9Training_Co - Instagram
Eric Telly - Previous episode
Andy Arrabito - Previous episode
https://OriginMaine.com/?ref=mountainside&utm_source=affiliate