#107 Josh Fremd - UFC Middleweight
Josh Fremd - UFC Middleweight Fighter, Professional Mixed Martial Artist, LFA 2020 Fighter of the year. Fighting out of Factory X by way of Pittsburgh, PA. Fremd started training senior year of high school and had his first fight freshman year of college. Josh held 2 amateur titles and finished as an amateur at 8-2. Josh currently holds a Professional 9-3 record. Tune in as Josh Fremd joins Bobby Marshall in studio to discuss sports training, professional athletes, LFA, UFC, MMA, strength and conditioning, sportsmanship, training in altitude, weed, NFL football, motorcycles, Colorado, outdoor life, and much more.
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Josh Fremd - UFC Middleweight
Our guest for this episode is my friend. The UFC Middleweight, Josh Fremd is back in the house. This was a great conversation. I always enjoy sitting down with Josh. He's up and coming contractor to the UFC. He's got a fight coming up. If you're reading this on the release day, you want to check that out. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
It’s good to see you. Welcome back.
Thanks for having me back.
Congratulations on the UFC contract.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
The last time you were in, I was giving Dana White a ration of shit. I was like, “Why isn't Josh in the UFC yet?”
It's been a journey and a long path, but I wouldn't have it any other way like Dustin Jacoby says, “You got to go through it to get to it.” It's been a long one. I'm excited to have the contract. This might be my second fight back. Getting the contract and being able to say, “I'm a UFC fighter,” is a lifelong dream fulfilled.
How many guys do you know firsthand that have put in all that work and still haven't made it? There's got to be a shitload.
I know people throughout my life whom I've watched their entire career from when I was a young kid to now, and they're still not there and the people I believe should be there. That's might be a biased opinion. It's a finicky game, and it is a game. It's crazy.
It seems nonstop for you guys. Now that I've got to know quite a few of you guys down at Factory X, the short notice, like your last fight was on ten days' notice or something. Straight into the lion's mouth like Hernandez is no joke.
He's a real one. That was a fun fight. I wish I had a little bit more time to prepare for it. I was doing some things outside of the gym that when you don't have a fight book, it's what you're doing. It was fun and I got super lucky because it was in front of a crowd on a pay-per-view. Brandon Royval went first 4 or 5 in the Apex. He didn't have a crowd. He's the kind of guy that deserves to be in front of a crowd. It was luck of the draw. I got to experience everything that night. I am unfortunate because I didn't get the result I wanted, but the experience was everything I always dreamed of.
That was one of my questions for you, the difference between the LFA and the UFC. You've only experienced this one time and are about to experience it the second time. How big of a difference was that especially walking into the octagon, the whole atmosphere, weigh-ins, the whole experience?
From a professional standpoint, the UFC is the number one promotion in the world. It was amazing, top-notch professional. Even when I was a week out, I have people from the UFC reach out to me like, “We have this lined up for you. They have your food ready for you. You get gear. You get all this awesome stuff.” They make sure you have an itinerary that's down to the minute for the things that you need to do. They make everything super easy. As far as walking into the cage in front of a crowd and everything, it's awesome. There's nothing else like that. Those were huge crowds.
I've seen FAC shows before where there are not that many people there in that same arena. I got lucky because it was Dana White and the Nelk Boys there. You had a bunch of people coming there who don't even know about fighting. They're there for the Nelk Boys or Dana White. Being able to walk out and see a huge stadium with the production and everything was a dream come true.
You should celebrate it and enjoy it. You got a fight coming up. Dustin Jacoby is going down with you. He's on the same card.
That's a cool dude to have a fight with. For my one LFA fight up in Vail, he was my cornerman and he came up with me and everything. You can't help but be confident around that guy because that guy exudes confidence and he's always positive, always thinking of the positive things in life. To have him share a fight is awesome.
He and Mark are some of my favorite dudes to have in here. When I come out of it, I'm in a great mood after talking to those guys. It makes me more motivated. They are awesome people to have on. Is Dustin fighting close to you? Do you know what the lineup is?
I was confused by the lineup. He's opening the main card. I'm the fight right after him. At first, I was confused. I was like, “That's Dustin Jacoby.” He's a ranked guy. He should be higher. When you think of it from a marketing and television broadcast standpoint, your first fight of the card, you want it to be a banger.
That’s like Gaethje and Chandler fight. That was insane.
I'm not saying that Tresean and I wouldn't be that, but that's Dustin Jacoby. Give him the spotlight and the opening where new fans are like, “Let's watch this.”
I'm pumped for it. I can't wait to watch you guys. I love watching you guys because I know you personally, so it makes it that much more exciting for me. I have much more feeling to it than watching some two dudes go at it, no matter who they are. I'm a major fan of it all. When you guys go, I'm religiously watching and cheering. That's awesome. I'm glad that you're there and that you're going. What's this fight camp been like? Has it been pretty rigorous or you've had a little bit more time?
I took it seriously. I’m not saying that I haven't taken it seriously before, but my last two fights were on pretty short notice. The one for the FAC fight, I was eating chili steaks, watching football, drinking beer, and hanging out with my boys. It was football season. I didn't have anything booked. I was still training, but your diet's not the greatest. After my FAC fight, I celebrate. “I got a contract. That's awesome.”
I was celebrating working, trying to focus on making money, working my way up, and wasn't expecting a fight, but I was still training, but diet, everything else, your outside life is normal. Now I've cut everything out. I don't hang out. I go to the gym and to work. I do the extra small things I wasn't doing before. I'm getting my runs, bikes, and swims in. It's been professional for the last several weeks and I feel amazing. I feel like I've leveled up a ton mentally, physically, and professionally as an athlete.
What does an average day look like for you? Is it waking up and going to the gym?
I've switched, from going to strength and conditioning in the afternoon to 6:00 AM and 7:00 AM and that's been a game changer for me. I used to wake up pretty early when I worked on the pipeline and everything. Ever since I moved out here, I was never a morning person, but I forced myself to be a morning person. I'd wake up, brush my teeth, make the bed, do all that stuff, get coffee, and hang with my dogs.
I go straight to land outs for strength conditioning at 6:00 in the morning, get my session in there, go get a private in with either Mark or my Coach G, then I'd go to the team practice. I'd go get a couple of hours of work in, then I'd go back to the gym. I'd either hit the heavy bag, have a private with another coach, or run extra miles on the treadmill, go home, and make sure I'm in bed. Dustin Jacoby said at one time during camp that he was in bed at 8:00.
We're starting this show at 8:00.
This is off the time, but it's because I wanted to come up here and kick it with you, I wanted to make it a point to come here. I've been in bed by 8:00 or 8:30 every night. It's huge. People don't make it a priority and I never made it a priority, but I made it a priority this time and I can feel a difference.
Sleep is so important. People don't make it a priority, but if you do, you will feel a difference.
I started paying attention to it in the last few years because I went through this crazy weight gain. I couldn't figure it out. I'm getting old dude. I started paying attention to everything in my body, what I put in it, what you're doing, and how you're recovering. I started monitoring my sleep. It has been a night and day game-changer to try to get a solid eight hours of sleep and then have something that tracks it, like a whoop. I have this Garmin watch. It's pretty good. Sometimes I wonder if it's bullshit.
Some of it is like, “How do you know that?”
It's got this little body battery charger thing or something. I'll occasionally look at that. Sometimes, I got 8 hours of sleep. I feel 100% rested. I’ll say that my body battery is down to 50%. I'm like, “It should be 90%.” It will mentally fuck with you too.
You'll have those good numbers, and then if you don't have a good number or reading, you're like, “That's probably why I messed up. That's going to cause some slack in.”
The biggest game-changer that I've had and something that I've started doing, I need to do it more. I wouldn't say I'm doing it religiously, but I try to do it as much as I can. I've been doing this NSR deep sleep. It's like a yoga nidra. They call it deep rest. You do it while you're awake, but you do it like in a laying position. It's guided, so there's somebody's voice. It can be a little bit strange like it was a little bit strange at first, but it does make you relax. If you do it before you go to bed or let’s say, you got a big day coming up the next day and you're having trouble sleeping, you throw this in your earbuds, lay down, do it, and it'll help you go to sleep.
I've been doing that before I go to bed and I crash out. It makes you not think about the day-to-day stuff because that's a big issue for me. When I'm laying in bed, I’m sitting there thinking about tomorrow because I'm a prep planter. The night before, I'm planning the next day. That's my jam. Especially if I got a big guest coming in like yourself, I want to be on top of my game.
I'll lay there in bed and think about maybe I'm not spending enough time with the kids or whatever that conversation that's going on in my head. This wipes it out because it concentrates on your nervous system so you start noticing different parts of your body, which seems weird. At one point, they'll make you notice each fingertip down to the tip. It's strange. You have to try it.
You're going to have to send me that. Let me try that.
There's a shitload of them out there and they're free. NSR deep rest or yoga nidra, either of those two things. I will send it to you. The first one I listened to was a dude and I was like, “This isn't cool. I'm laying in my boxer shorts. I can't be listening to it dude.” Not that there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing sexual about it at all or anything like that, but I found a nice female voice and it's more soothing or something
It's better to fall asleep too not a man's voice trying to calm you down. Let's be honest.
It worked better for me. On the contrary, before I found this one lady, I listened to another one and it was a girl's voice, but way too low, like too spiritual for me. This one's a little bit more straight to the point like, “You need to do this and that.” They have different ones. I'd like to get to where you start doing it in the middle of the day. You're supposed to do it like a fifteen-minute session in the middle of your day. They say it's ten times better than a power nap as far as resetting chemicals in your brain, your nervous system, and all this crazy shit.
It sounds like it would probably help me because I usually go to bed with like reruns of, “It's always sunny,” or something like that. I'm not the type to fall asleep easily. My girl tells me that I need to stay off my phone, shut the TV off, and stuff. Unless I'm extremely exhausted, I need something playing for me to fall asleep. You're a day planner. I remember when I was in seventh grade and I did this embarrassing thing, I have a bunch of funny regrets that come through my mind and I can't go to sleep.
I have trouble remembering stuff like that from my childhood or somebody will like, “Do you remember that time?” I'm like, “I have no idea what you're talking about.” Maybe it's from head injuries. A lot of it could be short-term. Going into camp, is this the first time that you went all in for that eight weeks where you're taking it super seriously?
It’s not the first time, but the first time in the last three fights maybe because they were short notice and I didn't have time to do it. I have done it in my amateur career and my first couple of pro fights, but this is the first time I was strictly disciplined with my sleep. If we can consider that all in then to answer your question, yes. Mostly with my sleep and recovery, I took it seriously because, in the last couple of fights, I wasn't recovering correctly because I had to work late and do this and that. I’m not making time for it. I purposely made time for it this time. I didn't have that many fun nights or extra things to do or extra time to cool stories and all that. I made it a huge priority to get my recovery and my sleep.
Make it a huge priority to get your recovery in and get your sleep.
We were going into what your day is like. What does that include? I'm curious with like food and stuff. What diet are you doing?
Eggs in the morning with some bison meat and vegetables. I love bison meat. Sometimes I'll make myself some 97% lean real good healthy burgers. The staple in my diet is steak, sweet potatoes, and Brussels sprouts. I eat that every single day, two times a day. That's my go-to. It helped me tremendously to stick with it every day.
It’s a paleolithic diet almost. It’s what you're sticking to.
I don’t know what that word means, but I know that I like steak and sweet potatoes.
I've been falling a crazy regimen on that as well. It works well, especially for energy levels, pretty much steak and meat in 90% of the diet.
I had a lot of chicken in my life. I don't eat chicken that much anymore. Salmon's good. Don't get me wrong. I love salmon and sushi, but there's nothing better than a good steak.
Have you had a wild game before?
No. I've eaten deer if you consider that.
I did pretty much a carnivore diet for about many days. One of the doctors that I was working with, Sean Baker had me pay attention. He's like, “Eat ribeyes for three days straight and pay attention to your body. See how you feel. Only eat eggs for three days.” I found that chicken, poultry, eggs, that stuff doesn't make me feel as good as steak, but then the wild game makes me feel even better than all that other stuff.
Did you like the carnivore diet? I know a couple of people have done it, but I've never tried it.
I'm a huge fan of it now.
I walked in here and I was like, “You look good, thin and tall.”
I was pushing close to 300 pounds. It was something I couldn't figure out. I even called the coach, and I was like, “I need to get in touch with a nutritionist or something. I’m tired of this shit.”
You made that decision.
I couldn't figure it out. I was a pretty active guy. I’m still going to ju-jitsu every once in a while in the mountains in the backcountry, bowhunting, hiking, shooting 3D courses, and going to the gym. That's what keeps my mental sanity. I am going to lift weights at least once a day or something. I’m going for a walk, at least at the bare minimum like getting outside. I was still active and I was eating healthy. I wasn't eating crazy. I did an elimination diet. Honestly, it is a straight carnivore, not even seasoning, no butter, no nothing, just straight meat, eggs, and fish. What I've narrowed it down to is probably preservatives. That's huge.
You kick that out and you get rid of a lot of inflammation.
My inflammation is going way down, but I'm down to 250, but a lot of it was muscle mass that I lost during it. That was one thing that Dr. Baker told me. He is like, “You got to lift hard and heavy if you want to retain your muscle because it does deteriorate muscle.” I'm trying to get it balanced. Now it's like, “I went down a couple of waist sizes.” You got to buy new clothes. I'm trying to maintain and I'm like, “I don't want to be this skinny bitch either. I like my size for a reason.” It's been interesting to find out. I started it on April 1st, 2022. In that amount of time, it's crazy. I've slowly added some stuff back in, like a little bit of fruit and stuff like that.
Did you ever think about taking a blood test to see what your body reacts to better or not?
UFC Middleweight: It’s recommended to take a blood test to see what your body reacts to better or not.
I did. I took a Spectrocell.
I want to take one of them, but I've heard of those.
I wouldn't recommend it unless you're eating. It was perfect for my scenario. Shout out to Dr. Castro that helped me out with that. I was eating the same thing every day for one month. I'm going to stick to that. I would eat wild game two days in a row and then I would go for a fatty ribeye or some beef. That was my regimen and I knew that I was going to stick to that. If you're not taking Spectrocell on a regular basis, they're expensive. I got a deal on mine. They're $800 a test. That's not including the blood draw. You got to pay for that too.
It checks you for vitamin deficiencies and your hormone level. After being a carnivore for 90 days, and I went a little bit longer by the time we got the Spectrocell and everything, it was 100 days plus or something, the only thing that I was deficient in was B-Complex, Vitamin D, which everybody's deficient in and they got me taken a little bit of Zinc. That was it.
Did you feel like your energy levels were down?
No. They have gone way up. B-Complex specifically. It has been a game-changer for me. I got young kids and their birthdays are coming around. They're giving me a hard time like, “Just cheat. Have a piece of cake.” They talk me into ice cream.
How do you say no to your kids?
My daughter was in the hospital because she started coming down with asthma. She wasn't breathing right. I went to the hospital. To make her feel better one night after I'd been through all this, I was like, “I'm going to eat a cup of jello or something.” I felt like I had a hangover. I felt like I drank that bottle of whiskey. It was insane. That's happened to me a couple of times.
We had some friends over and we were drinking some wine. My wife put out a cheese tray with crackers and cheese. There were some stone ground wheat crackers. I had that and a piece of cheese. It tasted good. I was like, “I'm going to have another one.” My mouth swelled up. I don't know if I'm allergic to wheat. It was insane. I don't know if it was a combination of the wine and that. The crazy stuff that you notice. Not having something and then reintroducing foods was the whole purpose of this.
Spectrocell is the shit because it tells you straight out. I would stick to whatever your regimen is, would be my suggestion. Find a diet that works for you or something that you can consistently eat like, “I'm going to eat this for ten days straight a month,” then you have like a baseline. If it's steak, sweet potatoes, and Brussels sprouts, then go get your Spectrocell.
Give it some time because your body is getting rid of all that shit. Who knows? I had been on a keto diet before. I tried all these crazy diets. None of them worked. You get like keto headaches or whatever. It's weird. When your body first goes into ketosis, if you're not used to it, it makes you feel groggy and sick, you get headaches and it fucks with you mentally a little bit. It's like a cloud.
I've never tried the keto diet.
I know it works for a lot of people, but my problem with it is, “Try this keto hamburger bun.” I’m like, “What is in this?” It's eating good whole foods. If you're going to have rice, have a little bit of it, but don't put a ton of butter, oil, and shit on it. That's the problem with steak. Steak's got a bad rep.
It’s because people dump stuff on it.
You go to Ruth’s Chris. They're putting slabs of butter on your steak. It's a ribeye that's heavily saturated fat. It's all the sides that go with it. You get a Caesar salad and you have mashed potatoes, lobster, and mac and cheese. When you're at a spot like that, how do you pass on stuff like that? They think I'm crazy when I walk into one of those places. I'm like, “I'll take a New York strip. I don't want any seasoning on it. No butter. Cook it medium rare.” It's crazy. Going out to eat isn't as fun anymore. It sucks. It's like, “I can cook better at home.”
Sometimes it's even better to cook at home because you can see what goes in your food. You don't know what people back there are. If it's a nice place, you're not worried about it, but even then you don't know how people are cooking your food if they're cleaning the grill the right way, or anything like that. I've worked in a restaurant and fast food. I know what goes on. I'm happy I'm out of that.
I worked in restaurants for a while as a bouncer. The cooks are some of the most fucked up people.
They don't care. They're characters. If you go to a nice spot and someone who's a chef who loves cooking, they will take care of your food. They will do well. In some restaurants when you have a kid or an adult, they just gave up. It doesn't care about taking care of your food. That grosses me out.
If you go to a nice spot, a chef who loves cooking will take care of your food and do well. In some restaurants, however, they don’t care about taking care of your food.
I worked at a restaurant in Denver. I was buddies with a bunch of the guys in the kitchen, but they were like these skaters punk rock kids. They are riding their skateboards up and down the cook line. You do not want these guys cooking your food. Trust me. I don't think I even ate there that often, but we would get Denver cops that would come in and they were like, “Do you want the old ball sack burger?” They are fucked up. I always think about that. Be nice to the people who cook and handle your food when you're in a restaurant. Tip well.
Especially if you're coming back.
If you can afford it, tip well. You're going to make somebody's day. That's the way I look at it. Unless I get absolute shit service, then you might get like a 20% tip.
I'm going to tip you, but I'll be angry about it.
You have to fuck up because everybody's human. That's how I look at it. When we go out, there's nothing worse than being at a restaurant with somebody that complains, “Can you send this back?” You don't know what's going to happen to your food. Wild shit happens back there on that cook line.
Uncleanly things.
That's why I enjoy hunting much. I know where that meat came from. The same thing. It's hard for me to go to the grocery store and buy beef and stuff like that. If I do, I'm going to Natural Grocers and hoping that what's in that plastic wrap stuff is decent. Hunting can be the same way. You take it to the wrong butcher. You don't know what you're getting. You could be getting somebody else's shit.
It could be getting someone else's meat or old meat. You never know.
That's why I enjoy the whole process myself. As much as I can keep my hands on it from the start of the process all the way to the end, that's how I prefer to do it. You should try some wild game and see because it's crazy how much that's made me feel. I feel ten times better energy level-wise. Going to the gym, sustainability and I don't know if it's the nutrients that are in it or something like that.
It could be the extra nutrients in it. Do you eat liver at all?
I do, but not on a regular basis. I'm not on this full liver king thing, but I'm also a firm believer in not wasting what I harvest. I'll take the liver, the heart, and the tongue. That's pretty much about it. The rest of the stuff is the gallbladder and stuff like that. I did a show with Ryan Maguire. He's an outdoor survivalist dude. He was telling me about eating lungs and stuff. I was like, “I don't know.”
What are the benefits? How does that help? If you're surviving out there, you're going to need to eat everything.
You might need to put down some lungs. Those organ meats, the heart is delicious. That's one of my favorite things.
The only thing I've ever had of that is my uncle tricked me into eating cow tongue one time.
Did you like it?
I liked it and then after he told me it, I was like, “Okay. I did that. I don't think I'll voluntarily do that again.” Even now, I'm leaning more towards wanting to eat liver and I didn't know you could eat a heart. That's interesting.
I'm not a huge fan of liver.
Does it taste good?
I don't like the liver and onions like the South. You go to a restaurant in the South and they'll be like, “Do you want the liver and onions?” You're like, “No.” They are trying to feed you cornbread with that. I prefer heart and tongue. I worked on a bison ranch right up the road growing up. We grew up super poor. The guy was cool that I worked for would send us home with bison meat and one of the things he would send us home with was the tongue because nobody wanted it. Bison tongue is some of the best meat I've ever had.
I have to try that. You were giving it a good review.
I don't know where you'd find it.
You'd have to go and get it yourself.
Do you know the whole deal with the liver king guy? What's his whole stick?
He eats liver. Steroids for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Have you ever tried any bone marrow? I know that's a big one.
I had bone marrow.
Is that good? It doesn't look like it tastes good.
The bone marrow that I had was like at a restaurant. That could have put a stick above butter and flame-broiled it.
It looks like oysters. I'm not a fan. The last time I had oysters, I had to dump a bunch of hot sauce on it to look like I belong at this table. It wasn't good.
I was in Boston and we went to The Bell in Hand. It’s one of the oldest bars. You got to do some oysters there because the bartenders are good-looking. They're like, “Do you want to rack the oysters?” “We'll do some oysters.” They were delicious with the hot sauce and the lemon. I'm not a big fan. I had 1 or 2, but I won't sit there and do like a whole tray. It's like eating boogers.
I tried them in charbroiled one time to see if I like changing.
I like Oysters Rockefeller.
That didn't work for me either. I was like, “I'm going to stick with the basics.”
If you’re not a fan of oysters, just stick with the basics.
One of my best food experiences ever was in Italy. We were in Rome. We had a few days off. Me and a couple of the crew guys, our big thing was to go out and find local spots. We stay on the touristy traps and go find a local restaurant. This was an actual family-owned restaurant. It put a whole new perspective when you see a family Italian restaurant. There it is because they don't want you to steal their recipes. These people grow their own herbs and make their own wine. It's pretty wild.
Dad was there. He was the manager. The grandpa was in the back cooking. It was all these kids and cousins. It was like a whole family experience. It was like, “Meet my brother,” in broken Italian. The guy was thrilled that we were in. He was giving us the full treatment, a royal treatment like you're in a five-star restaurant, but it wasn't. It was like this little corner café. He's like, “Do you want to try something amazing?” We're like, “We're going to try whatever you recommend.” He brought us mussels.
I've seen those before. I don’t want it.
He brought us a white wine to pair with it. It was like we were eating Pop Rocks because you would eat a mussel and then drink this white wine. It felt like you had Pop Rocks in your mouth from the taste exploding or whatever they were doing. The whole night was like that, the olives, and all that crazy shit that they were bringing us.
He takes a lot of pride. That's awesome.
He was excited. He is like a used-car salesman but genuinely excited.
It's probably his recipe. He put a lot of thought. People back prepared it well and he's like, “I want you to enjoy this.”
The thing about it that he was explaining to me is that it goes back generations. It's not like these are generational things that go back to maybe even the Coliseum day, the Gladiator days, or something like that. Who knows how long they're in business? We left the restaurant and went around the corner and had the best gelato you ever had in your life. It was like this little Town Square in the hood of Rome. We were watching people get pickpocketed while we were eating. It was crazy. They are crafty down there. We were walking down the street there. There was this lady in front of us carrying a baby and she dropped it. It was a baby doll. It was a diversion to get pickpocketed or something.
Is that a fake baby?
Instantly, we all ran to it. It’s wild in different parts of the world. We got it pretty good here. I've been to some parts of the world where there are gypsies running around and crazy shit.
That's why you travel. It is to learn and see how different life is.
One of the most important things you can do is see another culture or go to a third-world city, country, or whatever. Seeing actual poverty like people on the street with like gangrene is hardcore.
A new perspective on life after that.
The homeless dudes here have got it made. It's night and day. There's a lot of mental illness that comes with the American homeless population. I don't think I've seen one that's like completely sane.
What's your operational definition?
I have seen them. They're backpackers. They're like camping.
I've watched a couple of things with American people broken and they're like, “I don't want to conform to this type of standard.” They live in Ten Towns or are backpacking through America. They're living like campers and foresty people. I can appreciate that. If that's how you want a live life, go ahead. Good job. There's a different population from those to actual people who have mental illnesses or are war vets. When I see them have an iPhone and then ask me for money, I'm like, “You have an iPhone. Go DoorDash.”
I was in Nashville and there was a bunch of homeless dudes gathered around this light pole. They all had iPhones. They had a power ship and they were all charging their phones. On social media, I was like, “What is going on?” It's strange like, “How do you pay your bill?” That’s more important than having a house.
It's a numbers game. It's like sales. If you hold your sign out there and ask for money, someone will say yes. Someone will drop a $20 or a $5. You never know.
If you hold your sign out there and ask for money, someone will say yes and drop some money. It's all a numbers game.
There are those fake people out there.
Those who make money from doing it.
They are climbing in their Mercedes and drive home at the end of the day.
I wish I had the ability to disassociate.
If you think about that, how much effort goes into that?
There is a lot of strategy into it.
That cannot be fun. To me, there's nothing creative other than like writing whatever you're going to say on that cardboard.
They are technically a salesman. They're selling their selves and you got to be witty or at least emotionally moving to get someone to give you their money.
To me, it would be frustrating because at least 50% of them are noes. It's got to be over half. It depends if you're holding a Ukraine flag or something.
What part are you in of town? What demographic are you trying to reach? There's a lot that could go into it. Especially if you don't live around the area, no one knows you. It's a nameless, faceless person.
We have panhandlers, homeless people, or something that commute up here to go sit outside of a wealthy neighborhood with a grocery store and there's always the dude down there with his son or a family. Sometimes they're like fighting over space. It's crazy. We're up here in the mountains. They start clearing out because it starts getting a little cold.
The hard part is when you see people out there with their kids. That gets me. Dogs not much. My girl is always like, “I'll take that dog.” “That guy needs his dog or you need your dog.” When you have your kids out there, that's a little trying.
That is rough. I've given them money to hope that they need it and it's going somewhere. It was crazy when a lot of people in those third-world countries that are genuinely down and out, are missing a leg, or an arm, or have gangrene on the street. I had a hard time passing those people by. You want to help them. In those spots like that, especially like Rio, I had little kids run up to me and demand money. We were sitting on Copacabana Beach drinking a coconut, this little kid runs up to us and, “Rallies now,” violently, and his mom's standing over there looking at him.
It is strange. It was weird when you hit stoplights there, there are entertainers. You get entertained while you're at the stoplight. There's nobody like standing there with a sign. Some people make their work. They're juggling fire. It's pretty entertaining, guys riding unicycles and all things like that. It's a different mindset there when it comes to panhandling or something. It's a bit more aggressive. In Mexico, they're selling the Chiclets, but at least they're trying to give you something.
At least they're coming up with a service or a product, not if you're over here asking for it, you're not putting any effort towards it.
That is the missing connection in America because all the spots are trying to get you a bracelet or a churro.
The one guy got me on 16th Street Mall when I first came here to visit with my girlfriend when she came out from the military. She's doing her thing. I was like, “I'm going to go adventure on my own.” This guy on 16th Street handed me a bracelet. I was like, “Thank you,” then I went to walk away and he was like, “Give me money.” I was like, “I don't want the bracelet. I don't have any money. What do you want?” At least they're giving you something, not just asking for it.
We were in the line going back into the US a couple of times. I used to go down there with Monster Energy every year and we went with these crazy dudes. They were part of our security detail. We were coming back with all this crazy stuff. There would be all the shit that you can buy like piñatas for miles while you're waiting to get back into the US. It's lined up forever. There are all these performers. We had them light the hood of the car on fire one time. Have you been out of the country much? Have you been to the Middle East or anything like that?
I never left the country. That's a huge thing that I need to do. I've seen a couple of different states but I haven't traveled a ton.
It's crazy because that's all I wanted to do when I was younger. I was fortunate I got to do it the way that I did, me getting paid and traveling in the lab of luxury, cruising around the world on a tour bus, a plane, or something like that. I feel like I've seen and done it all. I haven't been to every corner of the world. I'm sure there's still some amazing stuff that I’m like, “I don't want to leave. I want to stay in Colorado.” You can turn it into that old hermit.
That's how I feel since I moved here. I was like, “I don't want to leave and miss out on anything out here.” I go back home, see family and everything, but I can't wait until I see the mountain. As soon as I land or cross over and we see the mountains in the window of the plane, I'm like, “I'm back. It's beautiful out here.”
You're from Pennsylvania. The last time you were in, we talked about that extensively.
I'll go back to see them. I have family in Florida that I'll go see sometimes, but mostly in Pennsylvania.
Where exactly were you at?
I grew up in Connellsville which is South of Pittsburgh. I went to college North of Pittsburgh then right after I graduated, I moved down to the city and lived down there for five years.
Did you move here specifically to train?
Yes. It was between here or Florida. I've trained in Florida a couple of times for my amateur career. I loved it. I was 100% going to go there. I have two friends from college who are down there. I took a chance. My girl got a job at the Air Force out here and I was like, “I've never been to Colorado.” I had a buddy who was training out here. I was like, “Let's give it a try.” Two weeks in, I was sold. I was like, “I'm never leaving.”
There are many pro fighters training here.
It's a ton. It's a huge mecca, which I never knew, which is crazy. The first UFC event was here. Don't get me wrong. I love California. I always felt like I was a beach guy. I always liked flowery button-up shirts and wearing less clothing but the beauty out here is amazing. You get all four seasons and so much outdoor activity. You can always visit the beach. I can walk down the street and go to a dispensary. It's a gas station. It's a lot easier out here. I've fallen in love with it.
It's a great spot. For your training regime, it's got to be good. Training and altitude are huge. That's why the majority of those fighters are here.
Not even fighters, but marathon runners, long-distance runners, and Olympians. There are a lot of people, long-distance athletes who come out here to train. I love it. Even sometimes, I'll drive up deep into the mountains and go train because it's at a higher elevation than it is here. It's not good for my wallet when I go home and I drink because I'm like, “I'm drinking forever.” You feel like the man except when you get that bill that comes. When you go down to sea level and when you work out, you're like, “I feel like I can do this forever.” It's a lot easier. It's hard coming back from a vacation.
Fighters, marathon runners, long-distance runners, Olympians, and long-distance athletes come to Florida to train.
Even if you've been out for 1 or 2 weeks, it's hard to come back and get acclimated a little bit for me.
I'm the same way.
It takes a couple of days.
I run up the stairs like I'm out of breath. I'm like, “What?”
Are you still training at Red Rocks?
No, I've been up to Silverthorne a couple of times and did some trails with my buddy. I love going up to Frisco. When I'm done fighting and wanting to be close to the city, Frisco is where I'm going to end up. I love it up there. It's beautiful. There's a football field, like a high school right around the lake. I go out there and do a track workout sometimes.
There’s something about being in the mountains like the quietness of it. That's the whole reason I moved back here. That's why I go off the grid for a couple of weeks out of the year at least. It's humbling. I'm getting back from that. I feel great. I feel rejuvenated. It puts life in the perspective of what's important. Sometimes, for me, it does because I don't have any of these other distractions. My time here gets taken up by either the day-to-day grind, family, and show.
There's always that needs my attention. Out there, if you're focused on one thing it's much easier, simple and a good reset. Coming back to it is crazy. It's the same thing. You got to get reacclimated a little bit to that hustle and bustle a little bit. It's wild. I came out of the backcountry and I was there for six days with no human interaction. It’s just myself.
The team went on a trip to the backcountry. I missed it because I already had a wedding. I had to go back to Pittsburgh.
Is that the one that the coach took everyone?
Yes. I was mad that I had to miss it, but I had to.
How much shit did you catch because of that?
Less shit than I would catch if I told my girl, “I know I bought these tickets seven months ago, but I'm not going to your best friend from high school's wedding. You're on your own.” I would've got a lot of shit for that. It was one of my huge regrets. I told her, “No matter what next year when we go, I'm going because I've never done it. I don’t care if it's my brothers. He'll understand.” I've never done it. It looked fun and something that I totally would be in love with. Seeing all the pictures that the team came back with and Josh made like a YouTube video, a slideshow of all this stuff, I was like, “I have bad FOMO right now.” I didn't touch or look at anything while I was back in Pittsburgh. I was like, “I'm not even going to think about it.”
I don't even care about hunting all that much. It's more about being out there and connected with something else other than an iPhone. I still have that capability. I took some photos when I was out there, but it was minimal. It was more like taking it in and enjoying it. I saw a mountain lion and bear, and I heard a bunch of elk. I didn't see any elk close enough. I was in the elk quite a bit, but I couldn't get it pulled off. Nonetheless, coming back to it. Even like the kids, the dogs, and stuff going around you. That's only a few days. You're almost on edge like shit. You are like, “This is too much.”
You can see why people nowadays are always on edge. That's a lot of external stimuli coming at you all the time. We had it easy back then.
On the contrary, I could see why people check out and are like, “I'm going to go live in a cave or whatever.” I could see that. What was that kid's name that died up in Alaska? They made a movie about him. He’s like Eddie Vedder was involved with it or something. It's a super-wealthy kid. He buys a school bus and ends up living out of it. The movie is Into The Wild. Have you ever seen Into The Wild?
I don't think I have.
It’s a good film. It’s based on a true story.
It’s directed by Sean Penn. He hitchhikes to the wilderness.
He left California, hitchhiked, and died of starvation or cold. I can't remember. It's been a while.
It was hardcore. It was brutal.
I'm going to probably watch this movie. It's the journey that I want to watch.
Checking out, but that's what I was getting at.
Sometimes I think about doing that all the time, I want to go get one of those double V vans, deck it out, take my dog, and get out of here. That would be awesome.
Even if you don't, getting out on foot.
What dog is it?
I got a Pity and a German Shepherd.
My German Shepherd would more be of a sacrifice. He's a little fancy, but Pity would protect me a little bit.
The last show that we did was with Chris Pelle. He owns Complete K9. It's like dog training. He trains police dogs. He is a super cool guy and super on top of it. He was explaining that there's a whole pet line of German Shepherds and Malinois.
There are working breeds.
Depending on what you get, he's like, “You don't want to make the mistake and get a working line dog as your pet. It's much better to get like the pet line dog.”
I'm guessing yours is the pet line.
He's not like a super big one. He was the runt of the litter. He's a baby. He's going to be small for a long time.
That balances out probably with the Pit a little bit because the Pit is probably protective and a little bit more and this one is laid back.
My Pit is laid back.
Your German shepherd is laid back as opposed to the Pit who's a little more protective and aggressive. You got to have that balance.
A German shepherd is laid back, unlike a pit, who's a little more protective and aggressive. You got to have that balance.
I love my dog, but I'm going to take her down to Chris and get her trained for tracking because I thought it would be cool. She needs a job like those dogs that breed. She's a Blue Heeler. She likes to work super smart. She always needs some activity even when I'm at home or whatever. I found out it was more for her pleasure, not mine. I'm going to take her down to Chris and get her train to track. I was super pumped to have him in. You should get out and try that with your dog. It's an awesome reset. I highly recommend it.
I've taken them camping a couple of times. I love going on hikes with them, but for an extended period of time, not like a regular camp. My friends that I like to go camping with take their trucks and everything. They set up like a big old thing. If I could do it with me and my Pity, that'd be fun.
It’s doing something by yourself. Have you ever been on a vacation completely by yourself?
Yes. I like that.
That's a game-changer. The first time I went and did that, I was going to San Diego to surf. A bunch of my buddies and I went to a concert the night before. We were going to leave the next morning and they all pissed out. I was like, “I'm going to go.” I started talking myself off the ledge as I'm driving to San Diego in a rental car. That was the smartest thing to do, hung over. I was like, “I'll go to Grand Junction and see. I'll make it to Utah and then I'll see how I feel.”
Eventually, I was in Vegas and I was like, “It's only four hours to make it this far. I might as well keep going.” It was the best time. I got to do whatever I want and when I wanted on my own schedule. As much as I wanted to go hunting with my brothers and uncles, it didn't work out, but it was nice because I could go where I wanted and do what I wanted. It was the first time I had done it solo.
That's something that I'm going to try and get done. Since I got my epic pass in these different places, I might want to go out to Salt Lake City for a weekend by myself and hit the slopes out there. I've been there once to hang out a bit, but I've never snowboarded out there. That looks fun.
Mormon people are nice. They like to party hard. Have you ever been up to Northern Montana at all?
No. That looks pretty cool.
Check that out. That's a pretty incredible country.
Yellowstone got me, Love in Montana, the show.
Have you ever been to the park?
No.
That's a bucket list too. I would suggest Grand Tetons. It's not that far from here either. That's incredible. It's pretty much connected to Yellowstone. They're only 10 miles apart. You can go do Grand Tetons and then Yellowstone. It's amazing especially if you go at the right time of year.
I want to write that off my bucket list.
Northern California too, Like Mammoth. You should put that on the list.
California is a huge dream of mine. I've been out to LA. I'm not huge on LA but I marked it off because I’m a Bigpack fan. I'm like, “Let's go to LA. Let's go have fun.” My buddy is an EDM producer out in LA. I'm like, “I’m going back,” but Northern California is where I want to go visit. I’ll maybe board a little bit there. Southern California looks amazing. It was expensive. There are a lot of homeless people. Their taxes and everything out there are crazy. I hear that it's going to break off from America and float away one day.
We've been hearing that for a long time. I'll believe it when I see it. I hope it doesn't. That would suck. There are those shitloads of people and Yosemite or Redwood National Forest and the stuff right outside of San Francisco Bay Area is beautiful. LA, you can have. When I lived there, I lived in Hermosa Beach, which wasn't too bad. It's got that beach vibe type to it. You're not that far from LAX, but it’s super wealthy. Manhattan Beach, Redondo Beach, and Palos Verdes are all right there. It’s a beautiful spot. The rest of LA, Hollywood, and all that bullshit, you can fuck right off. I don't want anything to do with that.
San Diego looks amazing shit.
I like being around. For me, it's the military presence that's there is epic to go to Coronado Beach and lang out. I was down there. We went and did the 100th episode down there. It was awesome. I spent a day at Coronado, cruising the beach, went, and did a little workout down there. Hilton Hotel was amazing. The beach looks like they are sprinkled with gold glitter all over it too. It's clean and all these military families. It's a Navy spot. It’s beautiful. I'm surprised there's not a black hawk in one of these photos. Every fifteen minutes when I was there, you have a black hawk come over. There's a bunch of operators in it normally or whatever. The military presence is awesome.
You said that you have a friend in EDM and you're going up over there for the music. What's up with that?
He originally is from Pittsburgh. We became friends in college. He moved down to Austin, Texas, which I love. That's where I went down and visited him one time. That's what made me fall in love with his type of EDM music because are there many different types of it. He moved out to LA. He's getting huge in the EDM scene and he's making all these friends. He's living with Russians, making cool music, and it's pretty sweet.
If you're going to live in LA and do music, go big or go home.
If you're going to live in LA and do music, do it. Go big or go home.
That's exactly what I told him. I was like, “If you're going to do it, go do it. Don’t half-ass. You got a whole ass.”
“Don't half-ass a bunch of little things. Whole ass this the whole thing.” You'll go down there and jam. Is he putting on shows?
Yes. After this fight, I'm going to make it a point to go out on a W because the last time I went to Austin, it was on an L. I'm going to go visit him on a W. He's going to show me around the scene. We're going to go to a couple of shows. He's going to be doing a couple of live shows. He has a couple of songs that he's going to release here soon. He released one for Halloween.
Do you want to give him a shout-out on here?
Everyone needs More Water. He has an awesome mix-out with a Michael Myers theme song. He did a remix to that. it's pretty dope. More Water, everyone. Check him out.
Good for him. That's a perfect time for Halloween. That's awesome. I love hearing artists coming up and the people supporting them.
He's been nothing but a great friend and supportive of me and my journey. I'm a receptacle of that. I'm always going to support him. He's always been cool to me. Speaking of being a good friend, “Don't waste your money and go see the new Halloween movie.” You're going to waste your money. You think you're going to see a horror movie. You're seeing an indirect, funny, humorous movie because it's cheesy and bad. My buddies and I went to watch it. We took a couple of vitamins beforehand, but we’re sitting there and watching it. People were yelling at us. We are like, “This is funny. You don't find this funny?”It's cheesy and bad.
The remakes are bad sometimes. Name one remake that they've nailed. I can't think of one.
I would want to be total cornball and say something about Lord Of The Rings, but that's a trilogy.
I have never seen Lord Of The Rings.
They have a whole series on Netflix of Lord Of The Rings. I can't bring myself to watch. I watched the first couple of movies. It was pretty badass. They had some good battle scenes in it. I love medieval movies. Braveheart or something like that is badass.
Have you ever seen House Party back in the ‘90s? They showed a preview for a new House Party based on that premise. It has a whole bunch of LeBron James and everything in it. I don't know how you're going to top Kid and Play, but you're bringing to a new generation and you're trying to show it to a younger audience. We sound old. It can't beat the original company.
Have you ever seen Caddyshack? I know they were doing Chevy Chase and they own the club. They own the golf course and now there are these new punks that are coming in. I'm hoping it'll be like Seth Rogen. It’s a Wolf of Wall Street vibe. Did you like the Top Gun remake? As a kid, the first Top Gun was epic, but the whole gay volleyball scene was. That's what it got dubbed as. By the time I was sixteen, I was like, “Do you mean the gay volleyball movie?” I had to go to the theater and watch the second one. I was a little disappointed, to be honest. The flying and stuff were super pretty cool but the storyline was meh.
We got to be honest. As a kid and everything, I’m watching it like, “This is cool.” I had to rewatch it before I went and saw the new one to refresh my memory and I was like, “I liked this, didn't I? This is cornball.”
Have you ever seen First Blood? It’s a great ‘80s movie. Still to this day, you can watch that. That's good. There's been a bunch of spins off that like Rambo 2 or 3. Now you got arrows with exploding tips and all this crazy bullshit.
Flying to my one LFA fight, my first main event for LFA, I watched Rambo 5, the newest one. In the end, he cut a hole in this dude's chest and ripped his heart out. I was like, “All right.” That worked for that movie.
It’s those old Schwarzenegger movies. There was Conan but there was another one that started with C, Commando or something like that. All those ‘80s movies were good, Cobra, and all that stuff when you were a kid. You go back and watch them now. It was the 30-year anniversary of the movie Rad. Have you ever seen that? It's like a VMX bike movie or something that came out. I made my kids watch it and they were like, “This is the worst movie ever. This is boring.”
Acting has come a long way.
They could get into some Karate Kid or something like that. Walkout music. Speaking of throwbacks, some Tupac. Are you still coming out to that?
Yes.
You’re never not going to come out to that.
The only way I'll change that is if I get to fight in Pittsburgh in the UFC, then I might go something like Wiz Khalifa or Mac Miller, but no. I flew my older brother and my mom down for my fight. I got free tickets to give them. He recorded my walkout for me because I didn't get to see it on ESPN because they were doing ads. He recorded it for me. That was everything I ever wanted to walk out to Tupac in a crowded stadium. The music bump in.
That's a big part of what I like watching, the walkout seeing Mark behind you guys, Dustin or whoever else is there in your corner. It’s crucial seeing the boys, not on a pay-per-view.
On a pay-per-view, you get to see all of it. That's the cool part.
This next fight will be at the Apex. Have you been in there before?
Never. I wanted to get to the Apex and The Performance Institute before I had this fight, but it never materialized. I didn't have a chance to. I'm excited.
Are they connected as one? I've driven by it a couple of times. Is the institute connected to the Apex somehow?
I want to say it's all one thing, but I've never been there so I don't know. I'll find out then.
Now that you're a contracted fighter, what help can you go there? Can you show up there anytime you want?
I messaged my manager one time and I said, “I wanted to go, do these tests and everything.” He said that all I got to do is text him. He’ll give me a couple of days that I want and he'll schedule it for me. Once you get there and you make contacts with people that if you live out there, you can use that.
That would be the spot to go get all your nutrition tests.
That is 100% what I'm doing when I go out there. When the days leading up to it, I'm going to make as many contacts and information as I can. I'm going to use that as a source for sure.
Make as many contacts and as much information as you can, and use that as a source.
That is a big ass facility when you drive by. Billing is huge. I'd love to go check it out sometime. Are you strictly dealing with an agent or do you get a direct call from the UFC like on that ten-day short notice like, “This is the fight, yes or no?”
That would be cool. My manager handles all of that. We have like a process pretty much. My manager and my coach are the ones talking to the UFC and then they come to me with the fight or the opportunity and lay it out for me, “This is a good opportunity for us,” or something like that. It was my coach, Randy Caruso, who got a hold of me when I got my short-notice fight. He texted me, “What are you doing?”
I was like, “I'm doing this moving job.” At the time, I didn't have a job. I was helping out and doing moving jobs, making money on the side. He was like, “Can you call me right now? I got some crazy news.” I felt something in my chest. I was like, “This is it.” He called me and told me straight up, “This is the opportunity. Jason wants to know if you are in or out. We need to know in one hour.” I was like, “I’m 100% in. I match up well with this guy. I don't care if it's ten days' notice. Let's get it.”
Was that the Hernandez fight?
Yes. My buddy who owns the moving company used to train at Factory X. I was good friends with him when I was there. It was a surreal, cool moment because he's another one of the most positive people I know. He's very good. Eric Grant is a great guy. When I was working for him, he would always help me out if I needed some money. He's like, “I got a job for you. Let's go.” He was always like, “I can't wait to see you in the UFC. I know you're going to make it. I know you're going to do that.” When I got that call and he was there, I share that with him. That was cool.
Having good friends like that is key. That's how I feel about that whole Factory X vibe down there. Mark's awesome. He's been awesome since day one I met him. We have the challenge coins sitting there. I feel honored whenever I get one of those, especially from somebody like Mark. It means something. Now that you had a little bit more notice, did you know exactly who it was? Did they give you the date or what the matchup was? How do you guys start?
I got offered this fight a couple of days after my Anthony Hernandez fight. My girl and I went to Disney after my fight. We were down in Florida. It was back on April 12, 2022. Randy texted me, “They want to offer you this fight.” I said, “Yes. Let's do it.” I would've fought him on July 9, 2022, but I had an injury at practice. That stopped me from being able to go live and train hard. I'm not going to say anything like what it was or anything, but it prevented me from completely training.
I didn't want to go into another fight not being 100%. I wanted to show who I was. I almost talked Mark into letting me do it. Being the smart guy that he is, he was like, “Let's step away from this one.” My teammate, Cody, was able to step in. Cody went out and had a great performance and beat him. I didn't know if I'd get that fight again. They offered it to me again afterward and I was like, “Is he going to say yes?” He did. I was like, “I say yes too. Let's get it.” That's how it materialized again.
What's your travel schedule down there? Do you get to go a couple of days before?
I'll fly out from here. I'll get in and got a bunch of stuff to do. I got the itinerary. I have some things. I don't even have to focus that much. I can make weight. I checked the scale and I was like, “I did well at this. I probably should go eat some food.” I got to get there a couple of days early and have some time to hang out in Vegas and get ready for it.
Don't let Vegas tempt you.
I hate Vegas.
I'm going to tell you a great spot to go off the air. I spend a lot of time in Vegas. It's a good spot.
I went there for like the HYROX Tournament a couple of times. Three days max in Vegas for me.
It's too much. I don't even stay on this trip anymore. You got to get off this trip. Out by the Apex, you should be all right.
I got to stay in the New York-New York Hotel.
It's better than Excalibur.
The last time I was there for the High Rollers Tournament, I stayed in the Polo Towers. Nothing worse than that.
The first couple of times I went to Vegas was great, loved it, and had a great time. After you've been there 5 or 6 times, you're like, “Now what?”
I got a story for you. My buddies and I went out. He’s a guy from the Gym Jacoby. We went out to the High Rollers Tournament. I texted my buddy who's a producer in LA. I was like, “We're going to Vegas. We're going to go do this Ju-jitsu tournament, but then we're free for a couple of days afterward.” He and another friend from back home came out. We had this group of people. We got a hotel room, hung out a bit, went, did awesome at the tournament, had a great time, and then we were like, “We're here for a couple of nights. Let's go out on this trip. Hang out.”
My one buddy is an interesting cat. He's a character. He'll talk to anyone. He'll try and, “Can I have the aux chord? Let me play the music.” God bless his heart. He's like me. He loves ‘90s R&B. He's that type of dude, but you got to feel the room. You got to be careful what room you play music in. We're walking down the street. You know how people come up and solicit you like, “I got coke. I got this and that. What do you want?” My buddy being the dude he is, drunk off his ass, this homeless guy comes up and he's like, “I got that for you.” He was like, “All right.” He's drunk and wonders off right with this guy. We're sitting there and watching him. We're like, “What is this guy doing right now?”
The homeless guy reaches down the back of his pants in his ass, pulls out a wad of toilet paper, and starts unraveling it. I grab my friend by the shirt. I was like, “Get over here. Stop being stupid.” The guy is like, “What? You have to keep it there for melting.” I was like, “Go away. This is too much. I took way too many edibles to be dealing with this type of stuff right now. I don't need that. He doesn't need that. Let's go.” It blew my mind that my friend watch that and still walk over with a guy. I was like, “We got to reevaluate our friendship right now because that is not something you do.”
There are times when you have to reevaluate your friendships.
There's a lot of temptation out there.
Not good ones either.
You can do anything you want there pretty much.
No one's going to yell at you or give you a hard time.
I wonder how many people get caught up with crazy shit.
A lot.
Now you got to worry about this whole fentanyl shit. That shit's even wild there.
That's why I don't mess with it because you never know who has it and what's in it. It's a stupid thing.
Not to mention the career that you have right now. There's no point. That would be stupid.
I'm not Jon Jones. I'm not that good. I'm not the greatest of all time. I can't be messing with anyone.
Do you think he's going to come back for real?
I think he does. Unfortunately, he's going to spark Stipe if they fight. I don't know where it goes from there, but I would love to see him fight one more time because he’s my all-time favorite fighter. That would be amazing to have him come back and fight. Fingers crossed I fight on that card. That'd be dope.
When you guys are there, there was something I was wondering. After your fight, can you guys go watch the rest?
I got kicked out immediately. I remember it well because it was funny. After the fight, they did the announcement. I walk out. They take me to the backstage. I go see the doctor real quick and then some lady is badgering me like, “You got to give me a piece of your fight. We got to take it now.” They're trying to push me out the door while she's yelling at me.
What did she want?
Our fight kit like our gloves, shirt, jersey, shorts, and everything.
Does she want something for herself personally?
No. It's for the UFC. In your contract, you have to give one piece away to go for auction online. I am being a rookie, not knowing it, and being mad at myself for not performing in that. She was taking my gloves off and I was like, “Take the gloves. I don’t care,” because she was in my ear. My coach was like, “Are you sure?” I was like, “Yes, take the gloves, I don't care.” Right when I got back to the hotel, I was like, “I should have given my jersey or something else,” because my coach was like, “I would've given you mine or whatnot.” This time, I'm keeping my gloves. They rush you out of it because of COVID.
What do they do with it?
It's up on the UFC auctions.
Is it for charity?
You can go look at it for $399. You could get my signed gloves. They're still there. I was tempted to buy them.
You should buy them back.
I was thinking about it, but $450 with the shipping and everything. I was like, “I could probably spend it with something else.”
I wanted to talk to you about your podcast or the radio show. Are you still doing that with Jordan? That's still full-on.
That was a cool thing that Jordan did for me. The handsome ever, Ron Crook, got real busy. He's wanted in many places. He wasn't able to do the radio show that much. Jordan asked me if I'd want to come on. I'm a shy guy. I don't talk a lot. I'm quiet. This is why I do better on it now because I'm using it as something to practice. I go on there, shoot the shit with him, and talk about fights and everything. It's a little harder because I can't cuss on the radio.
You guys need that bleep.
We do have it sometimes, but I keep forgetting here. I'm like, “I can’t cuss.” I can talk like how I talk outside, but it's been fun. I get to practice on the mic, speaking, and being smarter with my words. If you can't cuss, that's a huge disadvantage in your vocabulary. You have to fill it with other things. Getting comfortable on camera is something that I had to do. It's been a cool opportunity.
This show has been great for me in learning how to communicate. If you go back and read the first one, it is bad. I and Mark hit it off pretty well, but I don't know how he set through me on that fourth one. It was the typical interview. I didn't have a notebook, but it felt like a notebook interview like, “I'm interviewing this guy.” I found that it's much better to have you in, even though there might be these little bits of dead air, it's okay with a little bit of silence. Sarah agreed.
That's something that you can edit out anyway. It doesn't have to be there.
We don't even edit shit here. We might take out that part where the camera went down or something because who wants to listen to that? That wasn't even that long. If we're fucking with a camera or something for a minute, we'll take that part out, or if somebody's got to take a leak or whatever. It's not a live show. You guys are live on the radio. That's a whole nother ballgame.
Especially showing up on time.
Where can people catch that? Can you catch it from a streaming platform as well?
You can stream it from Mile High Sports every Wednesday from 6:00 to 7:00. On Twitter, it's also streamed live. You can go back and watch the episode. Kurtzy does a very good job at editing and having a YouTube page, Instagram and all that. I pretty much consider myself the knuckle-dragger that goes there and talks about fighting and says some dumb stuff here and there. Kurtzy is the guy with all the knowledge, intellect, and everything. That guy is on point when it comes to that stuff.
He loves it. You can hear the passion. When he speaks about something or knows about something, he is all over it of that.
I love seeing people in their element. My thing is fighting. If I go somewhere else, even here with you in your show, seeing how comfortable and everything, you are here. That's cool to see people in their element. There were days when I don't say a word. I can go through a whole day and I don't say a word. My girl gets mad at me. She's like, “Is there something wrong with you?” I was like, “No, I don't want to talk. That's how I am.” Kurtzy talk your ear off if you let him. Sometimes I have to like walk away and shut the door and he's still talking.
The couple of times that we've had him on, we've done a two-hour-plus show, then we're here for 2 or 3 hours after. We might as well keep recording. We could add four episodes at that time. I love hanging out with the dude. He's a great guy. He's been great for us too here at the show. He's on point man. He does not mess around. What's next for you? Do you get any other stuff outside the UFC or training? I know that you're trying to focus on that.
There is nothing else. There's no plan B.
You're early in your career. That's how it should be.
I’m early in my UFC career for sure. There are a lot of things outside of the UFC and fighting that I need to get on. People have been hounding me for merchandise, a YouTube channel, and doing more with my social media.
Don't feel hard.
I don't feel like I deserve it yet. If I would've won my first UFC fight, then maybe I'd feel like, “I need to get on this.” Winning is the most important thing. I'm in the UFC but I don't consider myself a UFC fighter because I haven't won yet. Until I get that W, then that's when I'm going to consider myself a UFC fighter. That was the goal. That was cool, but that wasn't the only goal. The other goal is to win in the UFC because until that I'm not technically a UFC fighter.
I see people go 0 in 2 and 3 get kicked out. You can say you're a UFC vet and to the naked eye and to regular people, “That guy was in the UFC.” I want the real ones to know who I am, not just the casual fan. I want Dustin Jacoby to look at me and be like, “That's a UFC fighter.” Not like, “That guy was in the UFC and then he was out.”
You need acceptance from your peers.
I want acceptance at the table.
You're on the right track. You got to have that mentality to make it happen.
Being a part of something is cool, but you want to be ingrained and accepted by your peers like how you said it.
Even though you're not ready for it, maybe document as much as you can. Get as much documentation of your training because you never know where you're going to use it. I regret all the cool shit that I've done because I never wanted to be the guy to like, “Let's get a photo together.” I've never asked all the famous people that I've been around and all the experiences. It's probably a good thing that phones didn't have cameras on them back in the Stone Age because I might be in prison.
I wish I would've documented more or kept a journal or something of all the cool experiences because now that I'm getting older in life and my brain only has much bandwidth with how many people that I've had in here on the show, how much I want to remember and keep track of for my kids. I wish I had that to look back on like a daily journal. It is cool. If you can take the time, put it down, especially when you're in the highlight of your career doing what you want to do.
Documenting a lot would be helpful. It's hard to be like, “Do you want to come to hang out with me? Do you want to record what I'm doing daily?” Kurtzy has been super cool about helping me out be more outgoing with that type of stuff. I do my best in reciprocating it and financially helping him out because we both have actual jobs. Even though I hate saying and admitting, but I'm in the top promotion in the world. I still got to work a day job because I don't get paid unless I fight or win. It's ass-backward. I'm 28. The UFC is only 28 years old.
When you think about it, the MLB, NFL, and NBA are all hundreds of years old. They've gone through what we're going through now. They went with it before having a union or anything. What we consider the Wild Wild West days of Matt Hughes and the iceman Chuck Liddell, that's caveman time. We're in the industrial period trying to work out the kinks. It's grown a lot, but I don't think that we're going to see fighters like myself get in. They're not going to be making livable money until either I'm 80 or dead, because we still have a long way to go with this sport.
We have a long way to go with creating a union and doing other things with healthcare. I don't have healthcare until fight week. If I get hurt during fight week, then I get help. Was it Medicaid or something like that? That's how that works. We have a long way to go. It's a lot of things that people don't know outside of it. I'm not saying about fights or anything negative because I do believe that you have to win and earn it for sure.
That's martial arts in general. Don't you think this for this argument, to make the sport the absolute best that it could be, wouldn't you want all of your contracted fighters to be devoting 100% of the time to training, to hopefully making good decisions health-wise? I think that's why they have the performance center. Do you know how many people in America get hurt on the job? Especially if you're moving furniture or something, who knows? You could throw out your back.
You could do that as easily as bowhunting, snowboarding, or riding. We had Derek Wolfe. Me and Derek hit it off right away. He's become a friend now. He is an awesome guy. We talked about that. He couldn't do certain things playing in the NFL. He couldn't go out and bowhunt or do all the stuff because that took much time and effort. If you got hurt, it's a career end.
A lot of NFL and NBA players have that in their contract to like, “You're not allowed to go do that because of how much money you're making.” I don't know if you ever watched Ben Roethlisberger wreck his motorcycle. That was a huge game-changer in his career. He didn't even look the same afterward. He still played great. He won Super Bowl. There are a lot of things that when you're getting paid that type of money, like your owner-manager owns you.
UFC Middleweight: If you ever watched Rothberg wreck his motorcycle, that was a huge game-changer in his career. He didn't even look the same afterward.
They can tell you what you can do in your time and stuff.
If they pay me $2 million, I won't go snowboarding.
Also, to pursue your passion because to play at that level or be at the level that you're at or even the amateur level, especially in mixed martial arts or combat sports, you have to have some passion for it. You can't be like, “I'm going to go punch the clock now.”
As soon as it turns into punching the clock, you are going to get lights out. I've talked to myself about it. I was like, “The exact day that I don't feel the way that I feel when I go to the gym or when I think about competing itself, not even fighting, I need to be done.” We're talking about like not making enough money, technically being a professional athlete, but being a professional athlete in this type of sport where you can get seriously hurt, it's not like I'm out there playing baseball where I might hurt my elbow or something like that.
With football as well, you're getting brain damage. That is crazy. Almost 270-pound middle linebacker who runs a 44 or 45 coming at you full speed and you're a receiver. I understand why the rules are changing now, because did you see Tua Tagovailoa, the Miami Dolphins quarterback who had a concussion get slammed on the ground and started making weird motions with his hands? A guy from Saint Scott tackled in his head and whiplashed off the ground. I see people get knocked out all the time, but in football, it's different because you're not used to seeing it. When it does happen, it's scary. Those guys should make $2 million because for your entertainment, they are destroying themselves.
The same argument goes for what you guys are doing too as professional fighters. Every time that you guys step into that octagon, there is a serious risk factor that you might not walk out of there.
Not completely mentally, but also physically, I leave every fight knowing that there's a piece of me that I won't get back. Thankfully, I haven't gotten hurt like crazy. I've only been knocked out. It was a flash knockout once in my career and thankfully, I didn't take any damage after that. I know every time I get hit like, “That's something I'm going to have to deal with later.” I'm not stupid. I went to school. I've read a lot of stuff on mental health afterward and brain damage. You're not the same. I do think fighters will get paid. It won't be in my time.
That's unfortunate. At least you would think that it would be in a big enough salary like a league minimum like the NFL has. It’s $750,000 a year.
I could live off that.
You could live off of $150,000 too. That would be sufficient to train.
I'm not asking for me to be able to roll down the main street with a Lambo. I want to pay rent and have my bills paid.
Not have to be on Medicaid.
I want to be able to go to the doctor easily.
That should at least be covered with full benefits. That'd be cool. Especially with what you guys are doing with your bodies. The last thing you want to be doing is questioning, “Should I go to a doctor or not? Can I afford this or not?” That's a problem in America.
I'm complaining because I'm voluntarily putting myself through it.
You don't gist as much right. If something's wrong with you, you should be able to at least get looked at and especially for what you guys are doing. I hope that they straighten that out. It might take the fighters to do it.
It's going to take big-name fighters. It's not going to take entry-level guys like me. It's going to take the champions.
At that point, they're making the money.
That's why I'm never going to complain about it because I'm happy that I get to live out a dream. This is something want to do. I remember when I was eight years old, I watched UFC and I was like, “This is cool.” If I complain, there's a kid who's thinking the same exact thing as me, like, “I want to make it to the UFC.” They don't care about pay. if I'm going to complain about it, they're going to cut me, and sign that guy. I'm like, “I'm cool. Let me go out there and earn my spot.” Eventually, if I make a name, maybe we could talk about it.
I'm rooting for you all the time. I’m a big fan of you down at Factory X and everybody out there. Shout out to all those guys. We keep having you guys in. I love every experience that I have with you guys too. I'm always behind you. I'm always in your corner, especially yours, Josh and Dustin's. I'm wishing you guys the best of luck down at the Apex. We will be watching. Go get that W. Everybody, thanks for coming and for reading.
Important Links
Josh Fremd - Instagram
Factory X – Instagram
Ryan Maguire – Past Episode
Chris Pelle – Past Episode
#100 Andrew Arrabito – Half Face Baldes – Past Episode
Twitter – Josh And Friends Podcast
YouTube – The Josh And Friends Podcast
Instagram – The Josh And Friends Podcast
Derek Wolfe – Past Episode