#134 Chris Lockhart - Pro Kickboxer / Fighter
Chris Lockhart – Professional Light Heavyweight Kickboxer, Nak Muay (Muay Thai Fighter), Taboo Social Club Sponsored Ice Wars Fighter, Founder of DenverCabinetExpress.com and ShakerCabinetSupply.com, ex tactical paramedic, ex professional saxophone player, ex Minor League football player, ex Abercrombie model, Beer League hockey player, diver, and a lot more. Lockhart has spent the last 9 years training and fighting full time and recently made his professional ice hockey fighting debut for Ice Wars 3 in 2023. Splitting time between Denver, Colorado and Koh Samui, Thailand, Lockhart is consistently risking his life trying to earn a Wikipedia page, both for his accomplishments (and near-death experiences) in the ring, on the ice, and as an OG entrepreneur. Tune in as Chris Lockhart joins Bobby Marshall in studio to discuss Thai kickboxing, fighting, combat sports, hockey, hockey fights, Ice Wars, nutrition, cutting weight, traveling, Thailand and much more. Please subscribe or like us on social media platforms for updates on shows, events, and episode drops.
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Chris Lockhart - Pro Kickboxer / Fighter
Joining us in the studio is professional fighter Chris Lockhart. He's a two-time Ammy Muay Thai champ. Chris fought in Ice Wars International: King of the Rink. We were able to squeeze him into the studio before he took off to Thailand for some more training. It was a great conversation. I enjoyed sitting down and getting to know Chris Lockhart. I hope that you enjoy the episode.
Thank you for having me.
I had a stellar weekend up there in Cheyenne.
It's crazy, right?
It was insane. It’s a little Wild Wild West up there. I didn't know what I was walking into, first of all, because I didn't know much about those fights. I was new to it and got dragged in by the Parkers, who are fucking awesome people. Shout-out to them.
I am sure they got tired of me saying thank you so much. To avoid going into a huge long story, I feel like the past couple of years have polarized people against each other. It's shown a lot of true colors. You have seen the worst of people in certain instances. To come back around Francesca, Scott, and everybody and to see people at their level that is the most generous, giving, and incredible people you will ever meet in your entire life. It brought a lot of faith back to me.
It did for me, too. I met them for the first time. It's crazy. Time flies by. They are super generous. It’s what they do outside of their platforms, too, with the non-profit with Parkers Platoon, and then inviting those guys up. I ended up spending the whole night with one of their veterans up there. I was with Bo all night watching the fights. What a fucking awesome guy and an awesome foundation. I encourage anybody who’s reading this and has the means to donate a little bit of money, or if they have a little bit of extra coin, that's a great foundation that 100% of the profits go to. The people who are running it care, like Francesca, DJ, and Scott himself.
That whole family is incredible. I have crossed paths with DJ a lot in the past because I used to go to his barbershop in Castle Rock. I knew they were doing stuff. They are at full speed generating huge donations for these guys that deserve it. It's mind-blowing.
My hat goes off to them because there's a lot of work that goes into that, too. The biggest reward is helping those people, being able to be around them, and that type of thing. Other than that, it's pretty selfless.
I came by to get a picture with Bo. We are all 1 or 2 degrees of separation away. His Malinois is the sibling to one of my coaches, Eric Telly, which I feel like you have had on here.
Eric is a good friend of mine.
He's a good dude. I have known that guy for a long time. He's been my S&C coach forever. Rosie is the sibling of Bo’s Malinois. They came from the same litter, Telly’s dog.
I know Anthony Longo too, the guy who procures all those dogs. It's crazy. I don't know if you know this, but are you familiar with Half Face Blades at all?
I have heard about him a lot. I know Chris Camozzi reps him pretty hard as well as Telly, too.
Andrew Arrabito, the owner and founder of it is a friend of mine. He's got a Malinois that's a sibling to those two dogs there, too. It comes full circle. Bito has been on here a couple of times. He makes the most beautiful fucking knives you have ever seen. It’s super cool stuff and a great company. It's good circles of people and they all know each other. It's crazy. When I had Scott in here, I had to text Bito. I was like, “Do you know fucking everybody? Everybody that comes in, there's some circle.” I feel like the world gets small, but it's not. They are the same circles. You know Camozzi. We have had Camozzi. He's a friend of ours. It’s a small circle. It's fucking cool. Good people are what I'm getting at.
You have been around. Did you play sports or anything?
I played a little bit in high school, but outside of high school, I never played anything other than recreational stuff. My kids got into jiu-jitsu a couple of years back. Throughout my post-high school career, which is many years ago, I was in and out of jiu-jitsu gyms and stuff like that because I grew up wrestling from a kid into middle school and then a couple of years in high school.
You have cut weight.
I was always a heavyweight.
That was one thing about this last Ice Wars thing. I didn't have to cut any weight. I got to walk in and weigh in. It was nice. That part was nice. There were the 310-pound monsters that I was headed towards.
That was fucking insane. That Indian dude straight off the res was repping the tribe flag and everything.
We started talking. They are super hard to understand.
You guys were all on the stage for the club. Let's talk about the club for a minute and we are going to come back to that. I was there for a couple of hours. I watched a couple of fights, and then I was like, “Okay.” I had enough tequila and I was like, “I got to find a restroom now.” I went and asked the bartender. I go upstairs and there's a full-on casino upstairs. As I'm coming down the stairs, I'm like, “Why is there water? Is there a pipe broken or something?” There's a waterfall underneath the stairs. You come downstairs and they have a claw machine full of White Claw.
It was the crane game, right?
Yeah. Right next to that is a fucking stripper pole. That club doubles as a strip club. It's all real cowboys and bikers from all walks of life and then a bunch of Canadians in town and shit. We walk into you guys on the ice just bells ringing. There were broken dasher boards. Your fight, in my eyes, was the fight of the night. You guys broke every dasher board in the fucking place. All you heard was screw guns going to repair shit during your guys' fight. Your opponent won the entire thing.
Our bracket was me and Ryan, and then whoever won went to the second round, which was the 2022 champion that was going to be fresh coming into it. I don't know if it was 2022, but the last Ice Wars 2 champion was our next opponent. We would fight third. We had the hardest bracket. After us, he played a good technical game against the second dude. The guy was so big. His opponent in the second one was gassed. He was enormous. The dude was 275.
How often do you see 300-pounders step into an MMA? Nowhere.
Exactly or even be able to ice skate and be able to do things on the ice.
We need to explain that to the readers unless you are new to this circle or checked out Scott Parker's when we talked about Ice Wars. What this is are full-on hockey fights. There's no hockey game. It’s a ring about the size of a boxing ring or a bare-knuckle ring. It’s a little smaller even. You guys are on ice in skates with full pads and helmets. There are two referees. It's a fucking throwdown. Two-minute rounds, right?
No. I wish because I needed more time. It was 2 1-minute rounds. If you are even coming through, you get a 30-second sudden death at the end. They either go to a decision or you can finish.
That was my only complaint being there as a spectator. There was nowhere to see how much time was left in the round. I would imagine that was a little bit of a mindfuck for you guys out there, too, because there's nothing to look at.
I won't look at the clock. I refuse. I'm trained to the point where I won't look, but I have my coaches programmed. They give me like, “For this one, it was 30 seconds and then 10 seconds.” They are good about it. They will run one on their phone so then they will get the ten-second. Things got so crazy so fast. We went through the boards and it was crazy. Thanks for the props on Fight of the Night because we ended up getting it.
You guys fucking deserved it. You went through about every dasher board. I was like, “These are two of the smallest guys on the card.”
I was the lightest dude on the roster at 230.
I was like, “This ring is not going to survive. There's no way. They are going to have to stop the event.” Either that or do it with no dasher boards. None of those heavyweights or anybody else went through the ring the rest of that night, so you guys were fucking going. It was like a couple of house cats fighting. It was crazy.
I was starting to find my rhythm. It was my first ice hockey fight. I fought at a drop-in years ago like an asshole. When I got him over to the right side and I had my left hand where I wanted it finally, I was like, “He's not going to be able to throw his left hand.” All these dudes do is latch and wing their right hand. I was like, “It's my turn.” I got my hand where Scott had taught me where to grab and was like, “It's my turn.” The dude starts fucking me up with his left hand. I was like, “This isn't supposed to happen,” and then I was like, “Fine. Fuck it.” I grabbed him and smashed him through the boards. I hit him as hard as I could to send him through the boards. There was that. My plan didn't work.
You need a better ring.
I need more time, too, because I had him. I was the only one.
One minute is crazy. It ends up being about two minutes by the time the helmets fly off. Are there any regulations on the chin straps? I noticed a couple of guys grabbing chin straps and punching almost as if it was a little piece of Velcro or something.
I tried. I felt so bad. Ryan was such a cool dude. He is the nicest guy ever. I talked to him. We have talked a lot after this. When I'm in that mode, I'm going to tear your head off. That was something that I and Scott Parker had in common. It is like, “I'm not stopping. It's an ice hockey fight. I'm going to fuck you up. I'm going to rip your face off.”
I couldn't hit him because he was so good. Every time I tried to close, I landed only a couple of punches on him because he was so good at getting away. One of the times when his helmet came off, I had a hold of the little ear cup thing. I was twisting it and grinding his strap across his throat. I was trying to break his head off backward. I felt so bad after because the dude is so nice.
He wasn't nice to you, so fucking A.
He fucked my face up right out of the gate.
It's not as bad as I thought though. It looked pretty bad at the fight. I was like, “Shit.”
I'm Wolverine, I feel like. I woke up Sunday morning. My eye was completely swollen shut. I went to the gym. I'm still doing stuff because my girlfriend is crazy. I was like, “Why not? I will go lift and stuff.” I have been still doing stuff, but it was swollen shut Sunday and then slowly but surely started to get better. I had a nice hockey game Tuesday night. I have still been active and I feel like it's flushing it. It still hurts. I still can't touch it.
How many stitches did you end up doing?
Twenty-five.
It was a gnarly cut.
It’s a crazy picture. It’s an insane picture.
That's the poster board for Ice Wars, too.
If I could do anything for those guys to help promote the sport, that's so worth it for me. It was a joke. I'm talking to Camozzi.
Shout-out to Chris Camozzi. He's a fucking great dude.
He was the reason all of this happened to me. I have trained with him for so long from the Factory X days. I was one of his main training partners through all of that. It was me, Ian, Dustin, Stroop, and all those guys.
You guys are similar in style, right?
Yeah. I came up with them. Most of what I had learned was from him. We used to smash each other every Friday. I helped him with his glory fights. He helped me with all my fights. We helped Dustin. We helped Stroop. Ian was a big part of it.
It’s such a good group of guys, too. They are fucking awesome.
Chris is a big deal. Every single chance he gets to rep or help me out, he is always there. He texted me after he first met with Charlie or he had a phone call with him. He was like, “I'm potentially going to be working with this company. You have to do it.” He was like, “It’s ice hockey fights. I had never seen it before.” I was like, “What?” I look it up and I'm like, “I'm in 100%.” I originally thought it was bare knuckle. Once I found out there were little gloves, too, I was done.
A couple of weeks went by and I didn't hear anything. Chris hit me up again and was like, “You are going to get a call pretty quick, so keep an eye on your phone.” They hit me up from Ice Wars and they were like, “Somebody had to pull out.” It was because of concussions or something like that. They said, “Do you want the spot?”
You were an alternate?
I was. I took it. My timeline for this was crazy. I had been running and training anyway. When Chris told me, “Do you want to do it?” I was like, “Yeah. I got to get up back on the treadmill.” I had been training and stuff. I train all the time anyway, but then, I implemented my runs.
This is your career, right?
Yeah. A couple of weeks out, I had a yearly dive trip that I took with a bunch of buddies. One of the guys that I worked with in the spring was a paramedic, and we were both medics. I go with him every year. We take a week or two and would go dive somewhere crazy. I had the dive trip two weeks before. A day or two before I left on the dive trip, they called me and set it up. I was like, “Run it. Let's go.”
It’s like a hockey fight. In hockey, even beer league pro or whatever, if somebody crushes your dude, it’s like, “I'm coming for you. I have good guys on my team and they score a lot of goals.” That pisses people off, so they are going to start getting hacked and cheap-shotted. I don't play anywhere close to the level that Ryan or any of these other guys play, but I will still come out. I will find you. If you fucking crush one of my guys or hurt them, I will. I'm looking for you.
I have good guys on my team that score a lot of goals, and that pisses people off. So they're going to start getting hacked and cheap-shotted.
It's an important part of the sport.
They are trying to ruin it.
I haven't played hockey other than pond hockey up here on the lake when it was frozen. It’s not even the same level, but we were doing the same thing out there. If somebody got a little bit rowdy, you never know. You are going to end up in a snow pile on the side or an ice pile.
When he told me about this, I was like, “I have to do it. There's no question.” When it comes to hockey fighting, you don't know who you are going to fight. You don't know who's going to smash your dude and whom you are going to have to go out and handle. I didn't look anybody up. I didn't pay any attention to anything. I said, “Put me in.” I thought it was one fight, too, and then they came back. When I got my contract, it was a tournament.
That's another thing. It's a bracket system. The guy that won it, Ryan, fought 3 or 4 times.
Three times.
That’s pretty wild, too.
He smoked the last dude in 20 or 30 seconds. He dropped him with his right hand and finished him. For the second guy, he played the strategy game, which was something that I didn't even know. I don't think I would have been able to do it because I didn't know any better. He skated backward, gassed the dude out, and tagged him every time he launched at him.
That was one of the 300-pounders, right?
Yes. He was 280 or something.
That's crazy. I had no idea. Was it Big Chief? Was that his name? It was Chief something. It was Big Snake. Shout-out to Chief Big Snake. When he walked out, I and DJ were looking at each other with wide eyes.
He was a big dude.
I have been to a lot of MMA spots and gyms. It is very seldom you see somebody that big. They are on skates and everything else.
They are 5 inches taller or whatever. He came up to me immediately and was like, “How are you doing?” He was talking to me. He starts talking to me about putting up teepees back at home. He was like, “When I'm at home, I install teepee posts.” When have you ever heard anybody say that? It is like, “What do you do for work?” They are like, “I build teepees.” He was super nice. All the guys were super cool. What a crazy experience.
I went on the dive trip because it was already booked and I had already paid for it all. I was like, “I would go out and fight somebody on the ice on a second's notice if they hurt one of my guys. I'm going to treat this as that.” I was already in shape. I was already training so hard that it helped me. I recovered over the week. It was huge cardio because it was pure swimming. I then got back and went right to work. Scott Parker of all people came through.
How badass is it to have him in your corner? That's one of the most feared guys in the NHL in history and he's in your corner for this thing.
It started with Chris and I talking about it, and then before I knew it, I'd signed contracts. Next, I'm in the ring or our cage at pound for pound with Scott Parker and Eric Godard. Both of them are Stanley Cup champions.
Eric is a badass, too. I got to hang out with him a little bit up there.
He's such a cool dude.
He’s an awesome guy.
He’s super quiet, but he's not a guy you want to play with. He’s good. Scott shows up to the gym and I'm thinking we are going to spend 5 or 10 minutes. I'm like, “These guys are huge. They are not going to spend much time with me.” He comes in with his Sharks gear bag that is full of jerseys and stuff. He was like, “Let's train.”
I had no idea. I had hit pads and stuff before that. He shows up with his gear bag and I'm like, “This is awesome.” Before I knew it, we were in there tearing each other's jerseys off. I have some pictures. I have got so many that I still have to post. Seeing Scott when he and I started to get into it and start to drill, some people have that fire.
Some people have that physique, too. How old is he? Probably 50 or late 40s. Look that up, Jeremy, so I’m not insulting Scott. He’s the last person I want to insult.
That's the truth.
He is a big sweetheart of a guy. Some of the NFL players that we have had in here and some of the fighters, at the end of a show, when you go to give them a hug, or bro down, it feels like they have two eye beams for lats.
He's still every bit of a monster.
He's 45.
We are not that far apart. He's got a couple of years on me.
What a G. I have friends who played hockey growing up. They are like, “You are doing what with whom?” I'm like, “I can't believe it either.” I'm like, “This whole thing is a whirlwind.” Before I knew it, Taboo Social with DJ and all of them, sponsored me for this fight, which was crazy in itself. I went into this expecting, “I will make a little bit of money and have some fun. I will check it off as a bucket list item because it's sweet. I can help them out a little bit and help them fill their bracket back up.” I’m in the ring with Scott and Eric, and then they offer a sponsorship deal to me. I am in an ice ring in Cheyenne throwing hands with some dude from the ECHL.
It was all within two weeks.
Yeah. It was insane. I was a whirlwind the whole time. Ryan, that dude, one of the guys on one of my hockey teams that bought the stream looked him up. The dude has 100 minutes of season or something, which is pure fights every season. He will get 5 minutes for fighting every time he fights and he's got 100 minutes per season of throwing hands. I ended up in there with him. I'm like, “What is happening?” Let alone to be able to go the distance, it was crazy. After all three fights, he gave me that shout-out.
You fucking deserved it. I will tell you that. That was a fucking throwdown. It was so much fun to watch. I had the best time being around the Parkers, hanging out with them all night, and then getting to meet you. You are a humble guy, too. Even prior to the fight. I met you prior to you going out and then after the fight, you are a genuinely nice guy but a savage inside the ring. It was the exact crazy opposite. You were like, “Thanks so much. It’s an honor to meet you.” I was like, “Honor to meet me? How the fuck do you know who I am, first off?” You are a good dude. You treat everybody with mad respect. I was like, “I got to get Chris in here.” Thanks for coming in.
You come up under guys like Camozzi, Dustin, and a lot of these guys. Some of the best athletes that I have ever trained with were the nicest. That was where I was going before when I asked you if you played sports. You will see the very best in the fields have the smallest egos. They have to be confident, but they are the nicer ones. You can see the people that are either insecure or afraid. We are all afraid, but they are outwardly violently aggressive.
The very best in the field have the smallest egos.
I have never gotten that aspect. For a majority, wouldn't you say most of the guys that you train with are pretty humble? Even the guys that I roll jiu-jitsu with it, are hobbyists. Off the mat, they are some of the fucking coolest people to hang out with. All the fighters that we have had in here and the coaches are fucking good people. I love talking to you guys because you are also not bullshitters. You can't be in your sport or the gym.
It gets exposed quickly. Those people get exposed. If there's any blood in the water or if you are out screaming like you are going crazy before and everything, you better show when you get in there. I'm quiet. Ice Wars was the behind-the-scenes spoiler. They are telling me, “Will you go on and say this about this person?” It's not my style. I know they are trying to build it and I get it. We want controversy and stuff like that, but I'm like, “Let's see if I can do this first before I start calling people out.” It's not my style. I'm quiet. I will smile on my weigh-in for pictures. When we get in there, it is the complete polar opposite. It's either you or me and I'm going to do everything I can to make sure it's you.
I can appreciate that, too. I'm putting words into all your guys' mouths, but the reason why you guys are so humble is because you have all that humility, training, being in the rings, and being in front of fucking thousands of people fighting. It’s televised. You can go back and watch it on YouTube. You have all of that. To talk to anybody and everybody is not a big deal.
If you do have that, it gets smashed out of you quickly. I remember Jacoby told me a long time ago. Don't ever believe your hype. It was something that happened to me, too.
That’s such a good line.
It's huge because you don't notice it until you start winning fights. The snowball starts to roll and get bigger. You are like, “Okay.” There's more pressure because everybody is behind you. They are like, “You are going to smash this dude. You are going to kill him. You are so good.” Everybody is hyping you up. It can get in and you can start to believe it. You can start to be like, “I'm untouchable.” You go out and get knocked out.
That's when you get fucked up.
He told me that. I will keep it forever because it's true. I have seen so many people do it in the gym. Hopefully, it finds its way out in the gym. I was grateful to come up in a place where you got exposed on a Friday night. We had sparred every Friday. You get exposed quickly. If you want to come in running your mouth and talking shit and you think you are the man, there will be a time when you have to show that.
It is this shark tank. Some of those gyms are no joke like Factory X. Look at their roster. It's fucking insane, you included.
I will be grateful for that place forever. That was the thing. When I split away, we had our disagreements, but ultimately, I credit that gym and I credit Marc. I credit a lot of things for who I am. There was a point where I had left and took a fight. It's crazy. I left Factory X because Marc wouldn't let me fight. I was like, “Fuck you. I can do this. Let me go somewhere else.” I went over to Justin Houghton in Pound 4 Pound and said, “I want to fight. Will you let me fight?” He was like, “Yeah. That’s cool.” J-Ho will take anything. He doesn't care.
He let me fight. I went out. I fought the Colorado advanced tournament champion from that year. The dude was 3 in 1. It was my debut. It was a ridiculous idea on my part. I went out and the dude smashed me for the first, and then I beat him to death the last two rounds. I won, thankfully. When we came back, Justin was like, “You need to go back to Factory X. I don't have the people here. I don't have the system. You need to go back.”
I went back to Marc and I had to level. I'm like, “I'm sorry. I understand what you were saying because the guy fucked me up. I get it now. I wasn't ready. I understand what you are saying now. What do I do?” He was like, “You need to be here six days a week, and you have to give up everything for the sport.” It's something that I understand and I'm grateful for. I was a paramedic at the time. I was working at DG. I had a company on the side, too, that had failed twice before that. I was trying to get it up again. I was trying to get it to go.
There are too many irons in the fire.
The thing was that as a medic, our hours were shitty. I would only be able to make certain practices here and there. In order to fight at the level that I have worked to and that I'm still climbing for, you can't train four times a week. You can't miss practices. You can't show up when you want. You can't do any of that. You have to give every little bit of your being to the sport or you won't ever be good.
Not only did he encourage that, but because of what he had told me and the sacrifice that I had to make to come back, I quit my job. I quit DG. I had gone to school for paramedicine. I worked in the Springs for a couple of years in a hard 911 system there. I then went down to Denver and said bye to that. I had $1,800 in my 401(k) from AMR. I was like, “I have got this. If I have to cash it out, I will do what I can.” The company that I had started, which I was selling kitchen cabinets online. If that didn't go, then I was going to drown. I was like, “I'm going to financially flip upside down within a matter of probably two months.”
That’s a crazy leap.
I was like, “I have to do it.” I quit my job and started doing that, and then started training full-time. It was the best decision I have ever made for everything because had I not taken that leap, my fighting career wouldn't be where it is. Without that, I wouldn't have learned what it takes to be good at the sport. Taking the leap made me put everything into the company. The company has given me opportunities over the years that I would have never gotten. I have been all over the world. I have done so much. I have been able to train and fight all over, too. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I had one foot in. It's cliché, the whole burn the bridges and all that.
Burn the boats.
It's true.
You have to be invested. I don't know how to explain it. I have had to do it in certain things, too, in my career path and stuff like that. I'm doing it with this, too. You have to be invested. It has to be your number one. If you start to try to balance normal life and this, that even gets in the way.
It's tough because then, you have girls and distractions. I have missed birthday parties. I have missed events. I have gone to Thailand for several months at a time while there are all kinds of stuff happening. I couldn't party. I couldn't drink. I couldn't eat. Drinking, I don't care about it, but sometimes, it's nice to go out, have fun, and even hang out with friends.
I gave up everything I had, my social life, all of it. It’s because I knew if I went out on a Friday night, for example, I knew Saturday morning, I had to be at Landow at 7:00 and then on the mat at 10:00. You can't do that if you are outraging. You sure as hell aren't going to survive in a place full of people like that if you are part in and part out.
Especially the caliber, because all your opponents are fully invested or they should be.
Yeah. Camozzi and Dustin fight full-time. They had little stuff on the side, but ultimately, they were all in. Not to mention, too, they are in camp a lot of the time. If I'm not running even out of camp and not fighting, these guys are going to drown me. I'm going to die. They are seriously going to hurt me if I can't stick with them within a relative level cardio-wise and stuff like that.
Even in sparring, if your cardio is not good, you tend to get sloppy. You make mistakes.
They are going to smash you. I hate to say it because I get it. Concussions are a thing. I understand. I have had it. I have been hit. I have had boxing rounds where I couldn't see out of my left eye and the spinning wouldn't stop. I felt drunk all the time. I couldn't look at the headlights. I have been there. My freaking eye is blown out. I feel like the pendulum swung from going way insanely hard to the other side where everybody is like, “They hit me too hard.” People are running from each other, dodging rounds, and stuff like that.
Are you talking sparring-wise?
Yeah. You can spar one way which is extreme like how we were or you can spar the other way where you either don't do it at all or you pick easy rounds.
There are a bunch of different methods to the madness, it seems like.
It's soft. The thing is and what it all boils down to in my mind, and this is an opinion, every fighter has to figure out what type of person they are. You don't figure that out until somebody tries to drown you. You preferably find that out in the gym. I got crucified not too long ago. One of the guys, his name is Jason. He is an older dude, but his heart is in it. He loves the sport and is doing it for fun. He is doing it to challenge himself. He was talking to me, Randy, and my coach, Clem, and was like, “I want you guys to help me prepare for these smokers.” I was like, “I will help you out. I will do what I can.”
Every fighter has to figure out what kind of person they are, and you don't really figure that out until somebody tries to drown you. You'd preferably want to find that out in the gym.
I brought him in on a Saturday, which is an open class sparring. It’s whoever. I found a guy there that was notoriously a prick. He had no control. I was like, “He's perfect.” I told him, “Will you do a couple of rounds with Jason? I need him to feel what it's like when somebody is trying to hurt him.” I knew this kid was better than he was, and I knew he was going to put it on him. I’m in his ear, yelling at Jason. I start the rounds and then I'm in his ear the whole time. I’m like, “Are you going to stand there? Are you going to go? You need to go forward.” I'm coaching him, but I'm extremely aggressive. I'm emotionally invested in the sport because it's everything to me.
It’s as close as you can get to being in a real fight.
Yeah. I'm telling him like, “Push.” I'm making the other guy smash him. It's like, “Are you going to fight or are you going to run? Let's find that out here instead of doing it in front of family and friends and on a stage or wherever because they are going to hurt you and they are not going to stop. If you turn your back and run away, there's no way out.” There is a way out if you want to quit and you run, but in the end, there is going to be somebody standing across from you who's going to beat you into the canvas.
As hard as they possibly can.
As hard as possible. They are going to humiliate you, try and embarrass you, and destroy you. It’s like, “Do you want to find out if you are going to bitch up and run in the gym, or do you want to find that out in front of everybody else?” They got on me about being too hard on him and stuff there. I get that it scares people to see that. They are like, “What's going on? Is this every Saturday? Is he going to come and grab me and make me do that sometime?” I get it. I understand there's a time and place for it, but it was very specific to him. The demeanor changes like, “That's too hard. What are they doing to him?” My reasoning is that I'm trying to find this out. I had a feeling he needed to find that inner like, “Fuck you. I'm going to smash you.” If he couldn't, then we know.
That's a great point. You are not going to know until you are tested.
You don't know, and that's the thing. I feel like every single person in the world has that fight or flight. You don't see it until somebody is trying to hurt you. It's intrinsic. I have been dropped where your body goes on autopilot. You can't see. Your body does what it's trained to do and what you are as a person. It’s in you if you are going to run or if you are going to fight. It's nothing against anybody who's figured out that the sport wasn't for them. I hope they found it out not on pay-per-view.
It applies to much more than the sport. I have experienced it in my life in some crazy fucking situations as a kid where it was a life-or-death situation. I had to make a decision on what I was going to do. I will tell you the fucking story. I don't think I have shared this before. I woke up one night to my mom being held at knifepoint by my stepfather. He had come home from the bar drunk, high, or something.
Luckily, I had played sports and had a little bit of confidence. I had wrestled. He had her cornered in the house. There was no place to go. I don't know what came over me. I don't think I even thought about it. I rushed him and tackled him. Luckily, he was intoxicated. It was a full-on struggle. It felt like it went on forever. It was probably five minutes. I was a kid, so I don't know. This was the middle of the night. Luckily, the sheriff's office finally showed up.
I feel like I have been tested in some of those things. I experienced it a little bit in the backcountry, too. When you walk up on a black bear or something, you have some decisions to make like, “Am I going to draw a pistol? Am I going to reach for bear spray?” It is those certain types of things or, “Am I going to try to get the fuck out of here?”
That's the thing with your mom. In that situation, you could have run and called 911 or you could fight. You have made the decision and that's who you are as a person. You don't know that until you are in a shitty situation like that where you have to act. You have to do something.
You never know who you are as a person until you're in a shitty situation.
I'm an actor. Thinking back to it, I'm always the guy yelling, “Call 911,” when I'm doing something to the bystanders who are standing by. That's always been my thing whenever I have been put in a situation like that.
You don't find that out until you are in it. The pendulum has swung to the other side where everybody wants to fight, but nobody wants to put the work in. It’s like, “Now, I see.” It comes full circle. There were a lot of things that I disagreed with Marc about at that time, mostly because I didn't understand him. As it comes full circle, it's like, “You were right. I get it.”
I haven't talked to him in a long time, but I always will say this to the end. I understand so much more about you and why you did the things you did after I tried to dabble a little bit in helping some guys out and coaching them a little bit. It's infuriating and frustrating. It’s rewarding, but there's a lot of bullshit. Imagine he had 50 of us with all of our life problems. Everybody is struggling. People have addiction problems. People are wild as hell. It’s fighters. It’s crazy different.
It’s a bunch of apex predators all under one fucking roof.
We were bringing it all to him, so it was like, “I understand so much.”
He is such a cornerstone, too. He's even been a cornerstone for me outside of the ring. He’s fucking one of those people that fucking cares. He genuinely cares. I love that guy to death. I can't imagine what he deals with and the sacrifices that he's made. He said it firsthand here. He’s got the same mentality as you guys did.
Most of us got it from him or we had it and it was honed and sharpened by him. Regardless of how things ended up, I will respect him forever. He's a lot. He's a big chunk of the reason why I'm as successful as I am.
That’s awesome. You still give him props even though there might be some bad blood there or something like that.
It was no Ill will. We disagreed and went our separate ways, but the respect was huge. I get it. I credit him. My buddy has kids. I talk with them, and it’s like, “When you start something, you need to finish it.” We were at breakfast before hockey one day. We were doing the word search. I'm like, “Find this word. This is the next word.” He is looking and struggling. Eventually, he's like, “My head hurts. Let's go to the next one.” I was like, “No. I’m sorry. Your head can hurt, but we are finding this word. You are not moving on until you find this word.” He then found it.
I can attest to that. I have had my kids and I’m putting them in sports. The first time you get lit up in football, that's a big deal. It's that same thing that you are talking about in sparring. In the first scrimmage that my son played, he got fucking ran over by a kid twice his size. He saw the white light. There were snot bubbles out of the nose and everything. I had warned him like, “This might happen, but you have to get up. You have to be more aggressive so you don't get hurt. It's either you are going to hurt somebody or they are going to hurt you.”
It's pretty much what it is. There are those moments not to him, but I have seen my kids in other spots where they want to do something so bad, but then, they end up deciding, “Maybe this isn't the best decision,” because it's fucking scary. The first time you walk into a cage, a ring, or even sparring, it’s intimidating as fuck.
It’s scary as hell, especially if you are in a good room.
I have had it here in the studio, too. Having Scott Parker sit away across from you or something, it’s like, “I hope I don't say something to offend him. It might go viral.”
He's probably one of the last guys you want to offend.
They are fucking great guys. Pushing through that and genuinely giving it your best shot is all you can do. Everybody comes to a time when they need a change in their life. For the most part, you have to be invested to know, “This is something that I don't want to do.” You have to invest some serious time into it.
That's the thing. One of the other parts about coming up under Marc was that there are times when you are going to hate the sport. There are times when you are not going to want to go. There are times when you are going to be hurt. You are going to be damaged. You are going to have girlfriend problems. Your pets are going to pass away. There is a lot of stuff that happens while you are in this. There are times when you don't want to go to the gym. It’s accountability.
Every time I'm supposed to go to the gym. I have to talk myself into it.
Sometimes, you have to. The thing is that having accountability is something that is missing in a lot of places, too. I knew if I wasn't at practice, I was going to get a text from Marc. I remember right after I left, I knew right around 2:00-ish every day, that I was going to start to get anxious. I was like, “I got to go to the gym. I got to go to practice and be there on time.” You get into that routine and that rhythm, and then it becomes so consistent that it's a part of you. You have to be held accountable. It helps to have other people around you that are like-minded that depend on you, too. We all helped each other. Marc helped keep us accountable, but in the end, if I knew Chris had a fight, I was going to be there regardless because he needed everybody that he could.
It’s a team almost at that point.
I knew he would be there for me, too, when I needed him or when I had a fight coming. We are all helping each other out. The actual core group of people all helped each other rise and grow.
Accountability is one of the biggest things to pursuing something. For me, the show has helped me because I publicly said shit that I want to do. I very easily could have been like, “I'm going to take the night off.” It's crazy, even with things that I love to do. I love to go to the 3D archery range, but there are times when I have to talk myself into it. I’m like, “I'm going to go do the 4 miles and 1,000 feet elevation climbs this week and ruin a couple of arrows.” It’s something that I genuinely love to do. Your brain or the human brain will talk you out of shit if there's any diversity, but then, once you do it, you feel pretty good.
Accountability is one of the biggest things to pursuing something.
Every single time. There were times when I knew. I was like, “I need to get in the car.” I was like, “I need to take my pre-workout and get in the car.” I don't take a lot of pre-workout, but it was like, “Get your drink, get in the car, and start driving.” That's all you have to do. It’s that easy. Get in the car.
Take the first step. Put on your fucking shoes.
After that, you are always happy that you did it. That’s with sports, too. You have guys like probably Ryan Devine, guys like Chris, and even me. There are days, whether you are a kid or an adult, where when you start something, you have to finish it. You have to do it. With Ryan, I'm sure the dude started playing hockey when he was itty bitty. It's guaranteed for all of us. You do it for 6 or 7 years and you hate it. You are like, “I'm tired of it. I don't want to do it anymore.”
The champions and a lot of the better athletes are the ones that push through that and say, “I'm going to feel like this. Some days, I'm not going to be motivated, but I'm going to push through. I'm going to stay true to the sport.” They make another huge accomplishment. You have to stay the course, which was why I had mentioned my buddy's kid. Find the word.
Professional Kickboxer: The people who are champions and a lot of the better athletes are the ones that push through that and say, “You know what? I'm going to feel like this some days. I'm not going to be motivated, but I'm going to push through and I'm going to stay true to the sport.”
It applies everywhere, not just to sports. If you are trying to be a stockbroker or whatever it is, maybe you are an artist or whatever, it's the same thing. You have to have that same mindset in anything.
When business gets tough, what are you going to do? You are going to get tired of everything at some point. I stopped in Taekwondo, or it was karate technically, at purple belt. It still sticks me in the side because I didn't belt in it. I didn't get to black because I quit. I went and did something else. It's a fine line. I don't have kids, so I don't know how it works so much. I don't know how you would navigate that because you don't want to force them.
I can tell you how I have done it firsthand because I have three kids. They change their minds pretty often about what they want to do or what they think they want to do. The ones that I squash are like, “I want to be a YouTuber.” I'm like, “No,” because I don't see longevity in that. Here I am with a show on YouTube and all that shit, so who am I to say? As far as sports go and that type of thing, for me, are they getting the training? Are they learning good values from this? We were living in Texas. I took my kid to a Taekwondo spot. These were like some good old Texas boys.
The sensei there thought he was Chuck Norris, for real. This guy was pretty country. He was super serious. My kid must have been three years old, and they were fucking serious. You don’t fuck around when you go in there. Rewinding it, we were there for a short time. We are not a fan of living in Texas. We came to Colorado and enrolled him because he loved Taekwondo so much and loved being around those instructors.
We moved him into Taekwondo and it wasn't the same. It was okay to quit in the middle of sparring if you felt like you got the slightest injury. It was okay to not pay attention. It was more of a moneymaking scheme. They were still belting him. I'm like, “What is this shit?” We have gotten three belts in three months and he didn't even belt from the first place he was at. I was like, “Wait a minute.” Luckily, my buddy Dave Roberts had opened a jiu-jitsu spot up here, so we moved him over to that. He started wrestling and stuff.
We made the transition from Taekwondo to jiu-jitsu because I was like, “These are not good values. They have to have good instructors.” That is the foundation. You have to have good influences. If you didn't have it at Factory X with Dustin, Marc, Chris Camozzi, and any of the other gyms that you go to, there's going to be some outside influence. If it's not good outside influence, you need to make a change. With kids, sometimes, it's been sports specifics. I have a daughter who's super advanced in ballet. It's her life to the point she's homeschooling so she can dance for 6 to 8 hours.
She traveled to Connecticut across the country and lived in dorms. She's 12 years old and trains ballet for 10 hours a day with Russian trainers who are fucking gnarly. She comes back from that as an entirely different person each time that she goes. I see the growth. It makes her that much better to the point where she's had some opportunities to dance for Colorado Ballet. She's pursuing that in her life.
The way I look at it is that it's all stuff that they could chalk up. If this is what they want to do, you have to support them in that. Sometimes, that changes as a kid. Also, it's about having the right influences. That's the only reason we sent her to Connecticut. That's the next level. You are going to train at the pro level. That's like going to the UFC Apex and spending seven months there. You are not only just going there, but you are with some of the top trainers, coaches, or nutritionists. It’s the full circle.
Inevitably, she's going to hate it.
She's invested. There have been a couple of times.
What do you do then? You may know like, “You are going to hate it. I understand it, but you are not going to hate it forever. You have to stay the course because eventually, this will go away. This will pass. You will be back to being excited and pumped. The rewards will come, but you have to weather that storm.” What do you do? You can't force them, but on the other side, I feel like you do need to push them a little bit and get them through that.
It's about being a good influence. If you are going to say that, lead by example, one. Whatever they see you doing, relate to them. Tell them where you have fallen short and why you don't want them to fall short. Talk to your kids like they are a person, not your kid like, “Are you okay, honey? Did that guy hurt you?” It’s that type of thing. Talk to them like they are a person like, “I know that sucks. I know that this wasn't the best move. I know that you made a mistake.” It is talking to them like they are people. Let them talk. The best way to have a conversation is to listen. I know that's cliché.
It's true. Nobody knows that either, too. That's the thing. You are never taught basic communication skills, let alone how to listen.
Let them have those humbling moments, too. It's good. It's good to fail. My daughter, it happened to her. Not to bring her up again, but she went to the Bolshoi Academy. It is the most prestigious ballet thing that you could be invited to. It costs a shit load of money, but we are supporting her in it. Prior to that, she was doing another intensive course down at Colorado Ballet. She didn't get selected to be in the group that she should have been in, so the first couple of days were rocky. She was like, “I already fucking know all this shit.” I was like, “Don't say anything. Prove it. Show them that you can work.”
That's the ticket. Everybody can say, “I should be.” I have worked with a therapist for a long time. It's like, “Don't get buried under a pile of shoulds.” I have guys that are in the gym all the time or in hockey. I can't stand it where they are like, “I’m sorry for doing this. I’m sorry for doing that.”
Anybody thinks that they are owed something because of their ability. It’s not the case, right?
No. You have to earn it every single day. You can’t be like, “I should be nothing.” You don't deserve anything. It’s not because you show up every day that it means you deserve to go to the UFC, to do this, or whatever. You have to earn it every single time you are on the mat. You have to drill with intent. You have to have a purpose. You have to show them. At the end of the day, you have to prove it. It sounds like with your daughter, that's the same thing.
What it ended up being in the long run is she's like, “Dad, I figured it out. It was a test of my character.”
She came up with that?
Yeah. I was like, “You are probably right. They probably wanted to see what you would do if you were put in this situation.”
Are you going to break? Are you going to quit if you don't get what you want or are you going to push harder and come back?
They offered her a full-time position after that. She was right. She fucking nailed it. She's like a little adult. It drives me insane. She's not a kid anymore. It's crazy. You growing up as a kid, did you play hockey as a kid? Was this the first time you had put on skates or did you play drop-in hockey or something?
Growing up, my childhood was the stereotypical fighter childhood. Everybody has a horrible story. Ultimately, when my mom got clean, she got into a good relationship. She started to make something of herself, and then we moved to Highlands Ranch.
Were you born and raised here in Colorado?
Yeah. We got out of public housing. I have lived with my grandma for most of my upbringing because of other issues. We ended up moving to Highlands Ranch. My sister started playing in line. We had always gone and skated. We'd find the smoothest parking lots that we could find and play inline hockey. I did that alongside karate.
Right around when I turned 21-ish, my buddy, Dylan, started playing ice hockey. He had spent some time in Canada when he was growing up, so he had played out there. He was like, “You got to get some gear and come do this. This is awesome.” I had started to get big for inline. It was always a struggle to stop. It’s hard for a big dude.
It’s always a struggle to stop. You really can't cut or anything.
You can't cut or anything.
I'm breaking my wheels off, trying to stop, and stuff like that. I go to ice and I’m instantly in love with it. I could stop. I could do everything that I wanted to do on inline but I couldn't. It was faster. It was a completely different sport. It was way better. From then on, I played in adult leagues. Still, I play even in fight camps. I skate 2 to 3 times a week. I'm on two teams.
That's why this was such a good fit for you. I didn't know that you played hockey all that much prior to this.
I'm not the greatest.
You are a two-time Muay Thai champ and Sparta champion.
I won a bunch but I didn't win the Sparta.
I thought you did. I'm sorry.
I had the fight right before COVID. I was supposed to fight Jokić's brother, the Nuggets dude. We had that all scheduled. The end of March was when that card was from 2020.
That's crazy that he fights. Is he tall?
He's 6’6”. That was what we were working on. I was going to have to cut his legs off because his reach was going to be insane.
It’s like fighting an NBA player. What does he weigh? Is he 205? You have fought at 205.
It would have been 205. We had that fight scheduled and that was for the Sparta Ammy title. I get sick in most fight camps anyway, but for this one, I was sick.
What do you think that is? Is it from your body being run down and working hard?
It’s nonstop. You are running every day. You are training every day for a couple of hours. It’s six days a week.
You are around a shitload of people.
You are clenching with people. You are close to people all the time and run your immune system into the ground. I always tend to get sick a couple of weeks out from a fight. I got sick at that time and I didn’t watch the news. I didn't pay any attention to anything. I got sick. I was like, “This is pretty typical.” I was with Sean Madden at the time over at Easton. I was working under him to work for this fight. We came in to hit pads and I was so sick. He was like, “What are you doing? Go home and don't come back for at least three days.” I could barely breathe. I could barely get from the elevator to my apartment at the time because I was so out of breath.
Was it COVID, you think?
That's what I think.
Was this pre-pandemic?
This was March 2020. What happened was I got sick and went home. I took a couple of days and then came back to practice. Within a couple of days of coming back, there were lockdowns. They canceled the card. Everybody went into full-blown lockdowns. Pretty soon, I'm driving on the highway by myself in total zombie apocalypse land.
What a strange fucking time.
It was insane. To think that we went through that is nuts. I never in a million years imagined driving down the highway. I still have the picture in my head because the sign above the highway was like, “Emergency travel only. Stay inside.”
I know. It was such a fucking weird time.
It was crazy and all of the bullshit that came with it.
What gets me is how easily we all bent over for it. I'm curious to see what happens if another pandemic comes along. It's a little bit scary. The narrative right at the start, and I don't know if you remember this, was like, “We got to flatten the curve. It’d be a couple of days or weeks. Stay inside.” Everybody was like, “This is sweet.”
It was like a snow day when you were a kid. You are like, “I'm going to play Xbox. I'm going to hang out with my kids.” That's what we did. We had a great fucking time as a family, and then it turned into like, “Now it's going to be another week.” You keep adding it on. I feel like the wool was pulled over everybody's eyes. To give them somewhat of the benefit of the doubt, maybe that first week or something, they didn't know what they were dealing with. After that, what the fuck?
I got the two weeks because everybody was nervous. Nobody knew what we were dealing with. Nobody knew what it was. Nobody knew how bad it was going to be. I get the 2 weeks, but 2 years? I was talking to Telly about this. I have text messages from the beginning where it was like, “They are encouraging us to wear the wrong masks. They are encouraging us to do certain things that aren't going to help us. What is going on?” Instead of going through and saying, “We were wrong. This is why we encourage this. This is why we did this.”
Own up to what you were wrong about. Don't fucking make everybody do it for two years.
They bit down harder and squeezed harder on the same things that were wrong and wouldn't admit they were wrong. They start calling themselves science when the scientific method is trying to prove them wrong over and over again. If you flip the whole thing instead of saying, “You have to get vaccinated. You have to do this or you are a bad person or you are going to kill your grandma.”
What kills me, too, is the corporations that fell in line with it. That's what I love about Dana White in the UFC was like, “Fuck you. I'm going to do my own thing. If you are not going to let me, I'm going to go someplace where they will let me.” All the airlines and everything for two years was wearing a fucking mask. I'm so glad that we are back to some sense of normal. I could say half the people maybe are not still subscribing to the bullshit. Let's get off the COVID train.
That’s good because I was going to drive away with it.
We have done enough. You can if you want to.
You are in the right room.
There are three salty motherfuckers in the room and the episode will get pulled down.
That's true. You will get flagged.
We went long enough. On Spotify, they put these little warnings up. I have to go through a shit ton of red tape, which I don't mind. I leave it in. My people do that, but I have had episodes where they will pull it down for a fucking week. They will do it two weeks after it's posted. I will start getting all these messages like, “Why'd you take this episode down?” I have had to take a couple down for the federal government. We have gotten some letters from some Military people that we have had on. It’s stuff where it started fucking up their careers. We have lost a couple of episodes that will never be coming back. If it's for the greater good of the person sitting across from me, I'm all about it.
On Spotify, they will put a COVID tag on it.
They put a little disclaimer on it. I don’t know if they do that on YouTube or not. I'm sure that there's some type of algorithm. I don't know how it is on YouTube. On YouTube, if we play 30 seconds of an ACDC song or even 10 seconds, in the background, they will find it. It's crazy. We have to be super careful playing music. I'm a rock and roll dude. That was my career for so long. I love talking about all that shit. You can’t play anything or play any badass music. I got to get the Rogan deal so I can play music. That's the biggest jealousy I have of him. He can fucking rock out to whatever song he wants, but then we'd probably turn into a full-on radio show.
It's what you pull up on here, too. I'm sure they look at videos that you play of other people.
We have to be careful what we overlay sometimes, too. I have had a couple of artists in here. I'm friends with some of the guys from P.O.D. and have been for a while. We did an episode with them. We played one of their songs. I had to go back through YouTube and was like, “I have the artist on the show. They own the rights. I have permission right here.” It's a whole fucking shit show to get it.
That sucks, but it makes sense.
Playing hockey, what got you into fighting at that point? Were you fighting as a kid?
I did the whole karate thing and then it was always poking me in the side like, “You need to see where this path goes.” I had gotten to purple and then stopped. I had always loved kickboxing and always loved martial arts growing up, so it was like, “You got to see where this path goes.” I dabbled in it a little bit more and then stopped again. It was like, “In your mid to later twenties, either you are going to do this or you are not. You have to make a decision.” Growing up, I was big into music, too. I was a saxophone player and was playing pro before I got out of high school.
Do you still play?
Not much anymore. I still have my sax and everything. I have held onto it. It’s in the background as the end game plan to keep me sane. I can do that forever, but you can't be an athlete forever, so I put the saxophone away.
The endgame plan is to just keep me sane. I can do sax and music forever, but I can't be an athlete forever.
There's a time stamp on that shit.
You can play the sax forever. Athletic-wise, I hate the whole age thing. My personal belief on it is it's vastly a social construct. I'm 37. I fight guys way younger than me and smash them.
That's crazy. You look fucking great for 37. I thought you were in your twenties.
A lot of people said that at Ice Wars, too. I was like, “I love that.” Something also that I had gotten into with Marc is I was freaking out. I'm like, “I don't have enough time. You need to let me fight.” I didn't know that I wasn't ready and that I would have died like he did. On the other side, he told me, “It's mileage. It's not about how old you are. It's not about any of that bullshit. It’s how much mileage you have.” He was like, “You are new in this sport. You played other sports, but you have never done anything this committed and this intense.”
It is more so now than ever, too. That's so right. That's a great way to think about it. You can get anything put back in your body if you will accept it.
I was struggling with drive, motivation, and stuff like that. I was like, “Maybe my test levels are low.” I hit up Chris Stolzman, the Easton dude. He owns Castle Rock Men's Health. I was like, “Can we run my values? Can we look at my labs and stuff like that?” We ran my numbers and at 37, I was 697 or something testosterone levels. I was doing that by dieting. I eat healthily. I have psoriasis. I have to eat cleaner or my skin gets all messed up. I am able to control that completely with diet and exercise, which is awesome.
What is your diet like to combat that?
It’s mostly meat. I'm big on carbs. My coach follows carnivore pretty religiously. He has been doing it long enough that his body can metabolize things. If I go no carb, I lose my mind. I go insane. I get lethargic. I struggle with it. Mostly, that's because my body is used to using that as fuel. In fight camp, my diet is pretty clean all the time anyway. Tiffany, my girlfriend, is such a machine. She's always constantly trying to get leaner and get in better shape. From a household perspective, we don't buy anything bad for us in the first place.
That's so key. It is having that around you or having extreme willpower or extreme reason to do it.
If I buy it, I'm going to eat it, so I just don't buy it. That's the thing. I would eat all kinds of horrendous shit all the time, but I don't buy it. The only thing that we put in the house is we eat tons of meat. It’s every meal pretty much. Shout-out to My Fit Foods. Those guys have been awesome. I eat their stuff every day for lunch.
Those are the pre-made meal plans. They will cater specifically to what you need nutrition-wise. It’s X amount of carbs and this amount of protein.
Pre-made meal plans cater specifically to what you need nutrition-wise.
I eat small meals. I get the smalls out of the refrigerator. It's good carbs. It's always a big portion of protein. For breakfast, I eat fruit. I worked with Tyler Minton a long time ago.
He's the OG of fighting. He used to be a fighter as well.
I don't know much about his history.
I follow him on Instagram. That’s good information.
He ended up working with another guy. They worked for the UFC eventually. He started doing his stuff, and then he went to the UFC and started doing all of their nutrition stuff. I had him write me a plan while I was over at Factory X. He put together a whole diet for me. I was eating three eggs a morning with a strip of bacon. It was a very good breakfast. It’s high fat, high protein, and high everything to power me through the day. The thing was I couldn't cut with it. I keep it a secret and now it won’t be, but I switched to cereal.
I fucking love cereal.
I get the berry mixes at Whole Foods. They have blackberries, blueberries, and everything. I pour that in. I slice up a banana and put it in, and then I do frosted mini wheat or stuff like that.
There is some sugar in it.
Exactly. I get my sugar from my fruits and stuff like that. I have brand cereal on top of it, add oat milk to it or almond, and then I'm money. I will eat that all-fight camp and slowly but surely lean out. At night, it's steak and sweet potatoes pretty much or fish and sweet potatoes.
That's your breakfast regimen and then protein in the evening.
Fit foods in the middle of the day. Depending on how I am weight-wise, I cut to 205 typically and for Ice Wars, I was 230. I walk around.
That’s a good cut.
I'm not as lean as I can be. I have put on a little bit of muscle, too, from training with Telly and everything else. When I start to struggle weight-wise, I will switch to salmon for dinners and start mixing those in. Salmon cuts. I lose weight quickly with it. It takes learning your body.
What makes your skin flare up mostly? Is it sugar, carbs, or gluten?
It is getting rid of high fructose corn syrup and a lot of the other bad shit.
It’s all the preservatives. I went pretty hardcore carnivore a few years ago. I did 100 days of no seasoning, no nothing. I then did SpectraCell after that to see what I was vitamin deficient in. You'd be surprised. In the first 40 days, I felt lethargic and like shit. It's not good, but it's 95% of my diet. I have been able to maintain my weight. I probably need to do another 100 days hard or something like that. I lost 70 pounds. It was crazy.
Anything autoimmune, like Crohn's, a lot of this stuff can be mitigated with a carnivore diet. I'm a big supporter of it. I don't necessarily do it personally, but I would still say that 80% of my diet is protein. I have carbs for energy levels. I have simple stuff like sweet potatoes, brown rice, and stuff like that.
It is those complex carbohydrates. Your body needs to break those down. This is my understanding, and I'm no fucking doctor or nutritionist.
I mixed them up, too.
The simple carbs, your body automatically turns into fat, sugar, or insulin. I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. From my understanding, if you are going to eat carbs and you are trying to do it on the healthier side, you need those complex carbohydrates like potatoes and that type of shit.
Sweet potatoes were my thing. I found if I ate too much white rice, I would be a little tired. It depends on where in the week and how hard the training sessions were. In the last couple of years, we were hard sparring on Tuesdays instead of Fridays. On Monday night, I started playing with what I was eating before to see how I felt the next day. It turned out that I would eat sushi. I would have two rolls and then one sashimi where it's fish and I'd feel money the next day. I would be all charged up. I have the night before every fight.
I fucking love sushi. That's the biggest thing, not having the rice with sushi. I will eat the shit out of sashimi, but it tastes pretty damn good with some rice. What I found when I was on it for that 100 days was if I started to feel tired or something, I got even crazier. It’s listening to my body. I would only eat wild game for three days. It made me feel like I was fucking on fire and I was ready to conquer the goddamn world. I found if I ate pork, fish, chicken, or something like that, I wasn't as satisfied. I was more irritable and tired. On that diet, they had me on salt because you are not getting much salt if you are not putting any seasoning.
I go crazy with salt.
I would do 2,000 milligrams of salt. I was using the LMNT salt packets, so it has some potassium and magnesium in it. That was like drinking an energy drink or something. It’s like you had caffeine. It was pretty much 1,000 milligrams of salt. I still use that. In the middle of a workout or something like that, if I'm starting to feel run down, one of those LMNT Labs packets is like a fucking recharge.
When I was in Thailand this last time, I was drinking the wrong water. The Singha water out there is too purified. There are no minerals or anything in it.
You got to pull so much shit out of it.
Who knows? That place is insane. Here, I drink deionized water and I have no issues with it. I don't have to add anything to it. I get everything from my diet and I can do fine here. Over there, I was sweating so much. I was losing all of my electrolytes. I remember one training session where we had done clinch shark tank because I had a fight scheduled and everything. I'm on the mat. Every time I would try and get my calf to uncramp, my anterior portion would cramp. I would go to stretch that to get it to uncramp and the back would cramp. It started going through my whole body and I had full-body cramps. The solution to that, all I had to do was switch to mineral water. I was getting the big gallons. I would throw five in my backpack. I had one of those big hiking backpacks that I took out there. I would throw 5 in there and then put 1 between my feet on my little motorbike and run back.
All I had to do was add pink sea salt to the water. Instantly, all the cramps went away. Everything was good. I switched to mineral water and then started adding half a tablespoon or whatever it was. It wasn't a lot, but it was pink Himalayan sea salt in the water. It was money. It was perfect. It fixed all the cramps. It fixed all my electrolyte issues.
Have you tried the LMNT Labs salt?
No.
I will hook you up. I got some here. We are not endorsed by them or anything, but I fucking love those things. They are fucking badass. They are flavored. When I was doing that carnivore and I started to have a sugar craving or something, I would throw those in the NutriBullet with some ice and blend it up. They taste so fucking good. They have a raspberry and a watermelon. They have a chocolate flavor. They have all kinds of different flavors.
This is fucked up, but I take the citrus ones. I'm drinking my booze on the rocks if I'm going to have it. It’s tequila on the rocks with a little bit of lime or something. I will throw some of that salt. They have a citrus-flavored one and I will throw that in the tequila. It feels like you are drinking a margarita, but you have to watch it because you could fuck yourself up quickly drinking those. I had some skin issues happening. It was minor stuff, not like psoriasis or something that flamed up like that. It was a little weird. I don't know if it was a mole or something. They tested it for cancer a couple of times and did some biopsies on it and stuff. All that went away. It's completely fucking gone.
It's preservatives. The shit that they put in food to make it sit on a shelf longer is bad. Even if you are buying steak from the grocery store, know where you are buying it from. I will not go into big-name brand grocery stores and buy meat. You might find me at Natural Grocers, Whole Foods, or something like that buying some meat. The best way to procure meat is to get it yourself. That’s the main reason why I bow hunt. Do you eat any wild game or anything like that?
I don't ever. I’m bougie. I don't hunt or anything.
It's an acquired taste.
The closest I have gotten to the game taste is that’s how grass-fed tastes to me. The true, all-organic grass-fed beef has that type of taste to it. I don't ever hunt or anything like that.
There are so many badass companies out there that will ship quality meat to your doorstep from small-batch farms, ranches, and stuff like that.
Everybody uses ButcherBox and stuff like that.
ButcherBox is all right. There are some Colorado companies. There is Eagles Wing Ranch. Shout-out to those guys. It's bison. You can order that and they deliver it to you. It's so fucking good. That's primarily what I have been eating. That bison is almost gone already, Jeremy.
I don't doubt it.
I went up there and did a bison experiment with CU Boulder. I got to take a bunch of the meat. It was awesome. They have super quality. When you can go and meet the rancher, you feel like, “I would buy this shit.” You know where it's coming from. Colorado Craft Beef is another one here. I forget where they are at, but shout-out to those guys. They have superior meat.
It’s worth every penny.
The steaks at the supermarket are spray painted, whether it's beet juice or preservatives. Your steak is not supposed to be as red as our logo. When you go and buy it, it's supposed to be purple. Even if it starts to turn a little bit brown, that's oxygen getting into it, but people don't like to fucking see that.
They freak. They are like, “It's rotten. I can't eat it.”
It's crazy. We are so lucky in this fucking country. You can walk into any supermarket on any corner and get anything you want, but it's hard to find clean food.
We're so lucky in this country to walk into any supermarket on any corner and get anything we want, but it's hard to find clean food.
The thing is it's so encouraged to eat garbage food all the time. You go into King Soopers or into a lot of these places and every end cap has M&Ms, chips, or tons of stuff. I love M&Ms, chips, and all that. It's everywhere.
Once you have kids, you will understand, too. They put it all at kid height level, too. They are fucking training them. This is one reason why we have a child obesity epidemic happening in the US. I strongly believe everything is marketed towards them like they used to market cigarettes to kids. It's pretty wild.
Everybody, I feel like, gains weight when they have kids. For me, it sounds like you are the same way, you want to be an influence. You want to be a positive influence. It’s like, “I'm going to work out. I'm going to stay healthy because ultimately, you are going to have to do the same,” or we are going to perpetuate the obesity.
It's super simple to get fat. It's fucking hard to stay in shape.
It goes on fast and it takes forever to get it off. It's easy to chill. After I got back from Thailand, I was sad because I didn't have any structure and I was feeling sorry for myself. I was like, “I'm going to chill for a little bit.” I played video games and ate for a month. I ended up at 255 again or 240-ish and felt like shit. My lower back hurt. My skin was starting to get fucked up. Everything was starting to creep its way back and I'm like, “How do people live like this?”
It fucking wrecks me to have an ice cream cone or anything high in sugar. I have it a couple of times since I have had that drastic weight loss and it's a kid's birthday or something. I needed to. I’m 43. I slowly packed it on. I wasn't eating unhealthy. I was eating a keto diet, but even then, the keto thing fucking drives me insane because it's like, “This is a keto cheesecake.” How many fucking chemicals are in that to make it taste good? It has stevia and all this stuff. Maybe that's not horrible for you. I don't mean to pick on that, but eliminate all the bullshit and eat what you know is good.
Small ingredient labels. That’s it. My only vice is stevia, but no erythritol. It’s just stevia leaf. That’s the only thing that is even borderline created that I ingest.
For me, it is even getting a professional's help. I reached out to Marc. I was like, “I'm looking for some help here,” and they turned me on. I had some awesome doctors that helped me out like Shawn Baker and Dr. Castro. These are people who don't subscribe to the medical book that's handed to every doctor on the way out. What was the catalyst for me was a little bit of a health scare because heart disease runs in my family. It was the first time I had gone in. They were like, “Your blood pressure's pretty fucking high. We need to put you on some medication.” I was like, “No, you don’t. I will figure this shit out.”
That’s because you can fix that on your own. You can cut your risk factors.
That's the thing. Do you know what they told me? It was like, “Cut down your salt intake to fucking bare minimum. Have no salt and don't eat red meat,” and I did the exact opposite. It dropped off like a roller coaster, my blood pressure and everything. My cholesterol level is good. I attribute this to eating wild game because it's so high in nutrients. There's a reason why it tastes a little bit different. It's all those nutrients that you are getting and stuff like that. The only thing I was deficient in was vitamin D and B complex. Everything else was good.
Those are easy fixes, too. That’s super supplements or getting outside.
Dr. Castro was like, “That's pretty fucking amazing. I thought you'd be deficient in a few more things, but this is pretty amazing. Even the average American is deficient in that no matter what diet they are eating.”
Even the average American is deficient in vitamin D, no matter what diet they're on.your body fat percentage
Exactly, and to lose 70 pounds.
I will say this. It has been a struggle. I'm trying to balance it because a lot of it that I lost was muscle mass at the beginning, but fat, too. I'm starting to put back on muscle mass and go down on the fat. I’m trying to balance it.
I would never touch a scale if I didn't fight. I wouldn't have one in the house. I wouldn't have one anywhere near me. I would get my body fat percentage done and that's it, or a DEXA scan or something like that.
I don't watch the scale. I notice how my clothes fit. I also went down four waist sizes. That fucking tells you something right there.
It’s a huge difference. It depends on the situation. If you are morbidly obese, you can monitor the scale a little bit. I deal with this with my girlfriend all the time. It’s like, “I have a scale in the bathroom. I don't ever want you to touch it,” because she's so lean. She's like, “I gained some weight.” When you look at that picture of muscle versus fat and how much fat weighs versus how much muscle weighs, you are going to gain weight. There's a point where you need to put the scale away and start looking at body fat percentage because then, it is like, “I gained weight today.” I can gain 5 to 10 pounds in a day and be back to normal the next day. You and I could go into a sauna.
It’s what you said. Go into a sauna. You get super dehydrated at night because you are not drinking water, hopefully, for eight hours. Hopefully, you are not waking up and pounding water. Living in Colorado, that is typically not the case. I will wake up in the middle of the night and fucking slam a glass of water or something. You will lose 5 to 6 pounds overnight in water weight, so you can't gauge it on that.
Even after a rigorous workout or something like that and you hop on the scale, your muscles are swollen. They are retaining water. If you are taking creatine or anything like that, it's going to promote that. You are going to gain weight. I have gained 7 pounds in a day from working out for 3 or 4 hours hard doing 100 pull-ups and 200 pushups and running.
You take the average person and say, “Your body fat percentage is 30%, 40%, or whatever. We need to get you down so you weigh 200 and whatever pounds.” You put this person on their workouts. Let’s you are a personal trainer. You have a client that comes in and wants to lose weight. That's always because of WeightWatchers and a lot of that stuff. It's like, “How much do I weigh today?”
Your weight is going to fluctuate a lot. What won't fluctuate is your body fat percentage.
They come in and work out for 4 or 5 days. They are like, “This is sweet.” It’s because they are dumping water, sweating, and metabolizing things that their weight falls. The minute that climbs back up to 4 or 5 pounds, they are like, “What am I doing this for? This is stupid.” They lose faith. They quit and then they are back to the beginning. Your weight is going to fluctuate a ton. What won't fluctuate is your body fat percentage. That should slowly but surely work its way down over the course of your journey.
Don't expect it to happen super fast either.
It's a lifestyle. Once you get there, too, you can't stay there. It’s like making money. It's like everything else. It’s like winning fights. It takes a lot of time to get there and even more time to stay.
That 50 pounds that I lost in 100 days, that's too drastic. That was fucking too much. This time, I'm trying to do it progressively.
I feel like you are in a physique where you can slowly work your way back.
It's so much better, the movement that I have. I didn't realize. Go fucking put 50 pounds on your back and try to run.
Imagine carrying a 70-pound dumbbell on your front, hanging it around your neck or on your midsection.
That goes with muscle mass, too. These doctors made me realize this, too. They were like, “Pick an athletic goal. What do you want to do athletically?” Castro was good about that. It took me a minute to think about it. I was like, “I want to be able to go to jiu-jitsu. I want to be able to be healthy in the backcountry.” He's like, “Go body weight shit then. You don't need to get yoked.”
I do sets of fifteen. Rarely do I max out. I will max out with Telly here and there, but most of the time, I'm 4 sets of 15 on everything. It is high reps and not extreme amounts of weight. I still manage to keep a bunch of muscle on. I still run all the time.
He is so fucking good. I need to go see him. That's my next step. I keep saying that. That guy works his ass off, too. He's working with my kid on football and the moves that he's made.
Learning how to run.
It’s not even learning how to run, but learning how to start. I couldn't coach him that shit. He'd be like, “Run harder.” This is all about posture. It's so key. It’s a game-changer, for sure.
He's so smart. I have worked with him for so long. I have learned so much from Telly. He is a gem, for sure.
I love that guy, too. He’s no bullshit, too.
He's a vet. He will stand up for his beliefs. I have nothing but huge respect for him. That's why he's part of my team. It’s to the end. He’s ride-or-die, for sure. Tiffany will come in and drop in on our workouts sometimes. He works with her. We have fixed a couple of things. You have to learn how to work out. You have to learn how to squat. You have to learn how to do these things correctly.
That's what I need. I'm doing all this shit, but am I doing it right?
It goes so much further when you are doing it. The thing is that most people come in and it's ego. They are like, “I need to be doing more weight.”
Fuck that. Check that shit at the door because it gets you nowhere.
Check your ego at the door, because it gets you nowhere.
It only gets you hurt.
Exactly. You are not going to be working out at all.
You end up with an injury, and then you are going to gain a bunch of weight being sedentary.
Luckily, I learned that a few years back, like, “Fucking leave that all at the door. You don't need any ego. Who are you going to impress?” Those people don't give a fuck. They are not going to remember you when you walk out.
They sure as hell won't be there when you are freaking in the hospital or somewhere else messed up or at home stuck with your back pull.
You are splitting your time between here and Thailand pretty much, right?
Yeah. Probably 25% of the year, I'm over there.
Do you enjoy being over there?
Yeah. This last time though was rough. I struggled with the food badly.
That was my next question. How are you maintaining your diet in a country like that?
We learned how to live with so much less. We lived at the gym. We were on a little island. There’s Phuket on one side and then Samui on the other side. We were at Samui at Super Pro, which is a good gym.
It's next level over there, isn't it? That’s that culture's lifestyle is kickboxing.
They live and breathe Thai boxing. Here, I always tell people when we run out there, you run and you are running on the side of the street. Instead of here where people will honk at you and yell at you until you get out of the road and shit like that, out there, they will cheer for you. They love fighters, so they are like, “Yeah.” They are super nice. They always make room for you. The culture is built around Muay Thai out there. It’s a different demeanor. The way that they do everything is different. There's a lot of betting and a lot of money in it. It supports a lot of them.
There are fights pretty much every night.
Pretty much. It depends. In Bangkok, there are other places where they are going all the time. At least two times a week, there's a fight card.
I went to so many fights there when I was on tour. I even trained there a little bit. It was fucking rad. It was very humbling.
Where did you go?
Tiger.
That’s on the Phuket side. They are good. That's where Ian was. Ian spent a couple of years out there, I feel like. He was going to move there. That whole thing happened and he ended up coming back.
When I say train there, I wasn't training. I dropped in for one class to say I did it.
That's better than none. You got to experience it a little bit. It's hard with the humidity.
It's next level.
The food was where I struggled most. Tiffany didn't have a ton of issues, but I got a parasite right out of the gate. I got it when we went to see the fights in Bangkok and I ate at this little food cart by the stadium. We were at Rajamangala. I walked over into an alley and bought some rice meat bowl. Before I knew it, I was doubled over with abdominal cramps and all of the stuff that comes with that for weeks. We went from Bangkok down to Samui. Within two weeks, I started training. The Thai coaches there were like, “You fight. We fight. Let's go.”
They were trying to keep up a fight for me. I went in for a one-hour class or some shit.
They are all about that. It was like the Jean-Claude movie where he takes me up to the big bosses at the stadium and lifts my shirt. They go talk back and forth in Thai and are like, “Okay, USA.” Before I knew it, I had some dude flying down from Bangkok to fight. I lucked out big time on that one because the dude pulled out. I was still making it, but I hadn't fixed the electrolyte issues. I hadn't figured out how to eat there. I had the parasite. I was having all kinds of issues. I was still training. I was still running. I was still doing everything. I was going to go in there like, “I have to hit him with an elbow quick or something. I have to cut this dude's bat or knock him out because I don't know if I can make it.” They have 5 3-minute rounds.
You were also sick with a parasite.
It was terrible. It was disgusting. I called it a parasite to save the grossness of it, but the meat got me. Once I figured out what was going on, I fixed my water and diet.
How do you ensure that you are getting clean food over there then?
We had a little Tesco Lotus and Tops Market they had out there where you can go up and you can buy in a grocery store. I found stuff that they were importing that we had here. That helped a lot. We are living at the gym. We have a refrigerator. That's it. That was all. There was nothing else. We didn't have a kitchen. There were no grills.
Your girlfriend is doing this with you?
Yeah. She's a G.
Shout-out. That’s fucking awesome.
In most girls, you can't do your hair. It's hard to do your makeup. It's so humid that you do any of it anyway and it's all ruined within two minutes. You are sweating by the time you walk out of our little room at the gym to the ring and then it's downhill from there. She did all of this and didn't complain. She trained alongside me and everybody else through the whole trip. She's a machine. We both had to learn together how to live without a microwave, a stove, and all of this stuff.
Sometimes, we have to learn together how to live without a microwave, a stove, or any of this stuff.
It's a big difference.
It’s crazy. It was different. We bought stuff from the little supermarket. I was able to make the same cereal in the morning. I would either buy bananas there or my Thai coach would bring me some in the morning. They grow out there, so he would go pull some. We had a lot of coconuts and stuff like that. We ate anything that we could find there. It was whatever chips we could find that was whole grain, like Sunchips and stuff like that. They had Kettle chips out there. They had some stuff that we have here.
I fucking love Kettle chips.
They are so good.
My downfall is potato chips. It’s the one thing I could go off the rails on.
We would eat little sandwiches pretty much. They didn't ever have sliced chicken or turkey. They had chorizo. It was chorizo pretty much, so we would do chorizo cheese sandwiches every day. We had four restaurants that we could go to that were safe, that didn't make me sick, and we were money. We were stuck between those restaurants. We had stuff in the room where we could eat there.
Are you going back to the same spot?
Yeah. It’s the same everything.
You are leaving in a couple of days. That's why we tried to squeeze this in. Thanks for coming in. That's fucking awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Do you have fights lined up down there?
No, but it takes no time at all. What happened before was that guy pulled out and then they asked me. They were like, “Do you want us to keep looking?” I said, “Please, God, let me figure this out.” I was already probably going to die, but I had too much pride. I wanted the coaches to be impressed. I was like, “I will take it. I will be all right. I should have enough skill to get through this even fucked up.” I told them to stop, so then I went through the rest of the trip and trained my ass off. We were doing two privates a day. I was taking as much knowledge as I could back here.
On this trip, my goal is to hit the ground running. I already know where to eat. I know how to eat. I know what to avoid. I know what's going to make me sick. I'm staying the night in Bangkok and then flying right to Samui. I'm limiting all of the factors so that hopefully, I can get out there, get right to it, and find the groove fast. Halfway through, once I had gotten rid of the parasite issues and stuff like that, because all of that stuff, you can buy over the counter there, the last half of the trip was sweet. I finally started to find a groove. I started to get my cardio where it needed to be. I was ready to fight and had to come home.
How long are you going on this one?
This will be three months. I will be gone until mid-October 2023.
Thanks for fitting this in. I know you are fucking busy. We are coming up in two hours. We are going to cut this off so I can be respectful of your time. We loved having you in. When you get back from Thailand, let's do another one.
I have tons of stuff to talk about. I'm grateful to you for having me here and for supporting Ice Wars.
That was awesome. Are we going to see you back at that, you think?
Yeah. I love it. That's sweet. I already told Ryan. I'm like, “When we do it again, we need to train together. I need some help so that I can land more than a couple of punches in one shot.”
You have Scott Parker in your corner, too.
They said they would be with me until the end, so I would be able to get more time with him, Eric, and everybody. I'm excited. I’m going to keep doing that. I will keep fighting for as long as Ice Wars will have me.
Are you fighting in a particular league outside of Ice Wars for kickboxing or MMA?
Nothing. I have no big promotion. I fought in Oklahoma in 2022 pro. I took a while to make my pro debut because it takes a minute. You have to get a lot of experience before you jump in with striking. MMA is different, but with striking, you get exposed quickly if you don't have a ton of fights. I'm not signed with anybody or anything. I’m going around.
What do you see coming in the future? What’s the goal? You don’t have to answer this.
It’s tough because I’m learning and figuring that out as we speak. The minimum is ten pro fights and a bunch of Thai fights. I have got some boxes to check in Samui. Who knows?
Is that to move into kickboxing or to MMA?
No MMA. I don't do jiu-jitsu or anything. I don't roll or anything like that. I’m doing it because I love it. There's no huge like, “I got to get to one,” or, “I got to get to this,” or, “I got to get to that.” I’m doing it because I enjoy it. Who knows where it will take me? This whole Ice Wars thing, I never imagined any of this would happen. That's how fighting is. Every time the lights come on, I seem to do something pretty cool that I impress myself. I'm going to keep doing it as long as I can. Who knows where it will take me? Thank you so much for having me here and spending time.
It's been great talking to you. I enjoyed this. I enjoyed watching you fight. Hanging out with you outside of the ring, too, has been fucking awesome. You are a great person. I would love to have you back.
Thank you. We can come back and do a part two once I get back. I have so many insane, crazy stories about that place.
I bet we barely got into it. I always feel on these first episodes that it’s feeling each other out. It's like the first round of a fight. We can go ten rounds if you want. I love it. I love having recurring guests. You are welcome back anytime.
If you are down, I'm down. That would be great.
I'm down.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, everybody, for reading.
Important Links
Scott Parker - Past episode
Chris Camozzi - Past episode
Marcos Curiel - P.O.D. - Past episode
Eric Telly - Past episode
Andrew Arrabito - Past episode